Disaster and Emergency Committee Meeting - 2 December 2025

Manager, you got

The acknowledgement? Acknowledgement.

The Hawkesbury City Council acknowledges the Dharug and the Darkinjung peoples as the traditional custodians of the lands of the Hawkesbury. We pay respects to all Elders past, present and emerging, and acknowledge all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the first peoples of this country. That's probably all. We don't have any public speakers this evening, and for the benefit of all councillors and members in the gallery, the meeting is being recorded tonight.

Thanks, General Manager. Apologies, councillors. Councillor Vigo, Councillor Kotlash have given their apologies.

Councillor Wheeler.

Councillor Wheeler. Okay.

Was anybody else?

Someone like to move those apologies?

Councillor Buckett and Councillor Reardon. Those in favour? Against. It's carried.

Is there any declarations that any councillors need to put in relation to the matters tonight?

Deputy Mayor.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. I will be declaring a less than significant non-pecuniary interest in the item 2.1.1

Thank you. Okay. And we can go to item 2.2.1.

The purpose of this report is to provide a briefing to disaster and emergency—I'll come back to you, Deputy Mayor—as resolved by Council at its meeting held on the 4th of November 25 regarding the upcoming fire season, including an update on the recent preparedness activities and the status of the new Hawkesbury Fire Control Centre. Deputy Mayor.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. I'm declaring a less than significant non-pecuniary interest in item 2.1.1. I'm a member of the New South Wales RFS Hawkesbury Communications Brigade, and I'll be staying in the meeting. Thank you.

Thanks, Deputy Mayor. Councillor Wheeler, there's declarations of interest. You might be interested in 2.1.1.

Thanks, Mr Mayor. Yes, I have a non-significant—sorry, less than significant non-pecuniary interest in 2.1.1. I'm a member of—definitely not a mayor—I'm a member of the New South Wales RFS, as is my son.

Thank you, Councillor Wheeler.

I've got Jonathan Hill that's going to address us this evening. Is there any reports prior to that? Jonathan, would you like to debrief us, please? Good afternoon, Mr Mayor, Madam Deputy Mayor, Councillors

General Manager, Directors, and any public within the room as well. Thank you for the invitation this afternoon. On behalf of the New South Wales Rural Fire Service, Hawkesbury District and our members, I appreciate the chance to speak on the record about what's working, what we're lifting, but also the Hawkesbury risk profile and our capability as we move into this bushfire season and how we can serve the community. Five years on from the Gospers Mountain fire, we acknowledge what the Hawkesbury has endured. Since then, our community has lived through COVID, lockdowns, floods, long wet periods, and then obviously an accelerated growth as a result of that. Now, whilst fuels aren't what they were before the Black Summer fires, risk is absolutely returning to the Hawkesbury.

The weather has been inconsistent: brief bursts of rain, but then really long drying spells with warm wind and higher temperatures. The AFAC, or the Australasian Fire Advisory Council, their summer outlook that they released just this week puts the Hawkesbury at a normal fire potential, but we're taking nothing for granted. We've already seen numerous starts in the Wollomi, a handful of starts in the urban interface, but also— The community and its concern is understood, but also shared. Tonight I want to put a couple of things on the public record: what we've improved, how we decide, and what's next in relation to us and our capability. With our improvements, particularly in the 24-25 season, we've completed 29 hazard reductions with our partners, being National Parks and Wildlife Service and Forestry New South Wales.

And so far in 25-26, we've completed 16, with more to go in the autumn period. Conversely, the program reduced risk for about 1,500 homes across our interface, and these aren't random burns. Most of them sit inside strategic fire advantage zones, where we planned or planned areas where we lower fuel so firefighters have a safer area to work, but also we give a buffer to our residents to gain more minutes in those circumstances. ASFAs aren't a new thing. They've been around the Rural Fires Act since 1997, and they remain a standard evidence-based tool in which land managers and emergency services, how we reduce consequence. With our community readiness as well, we've expanded our Get Ready program.

We've gone to the Hawkesbury Show this year, the RAF Airshow, and numerous station events across the Hawkesbury, turning interest across the community into bushfire survival plans. We've delivered a hotspots program at Kurrajong Heights, and we had to cancel the second one due to elevated fire conditions. But reading country, safe burning, protecting our biodiversity, and writing property level plans so we can inform our community. The message is really simple from us: have a plan, know your triggers, and act early. We're also trialling AI detection in the Hawkesbury. It doesn't replace people. All it does is it helps us see faster, verify smoke columns faster as well, and respond sooner. We've tightened our operational readiness as well locally: clearer strike team requirements, closer times on high-risk days, and also lean on our brigades in a more elevated way, in a more predetermined way as well.

But at the heart of all this is our membership. It's our community. They coach sport, they teach in schools, they run businesses, but yet they still roll when the pages go off for us. Our responsibility is to give them the tools, the doctrine, and the backing to do their job safely, to protect their own communities, and your support helps us do that. Our risk across the Hawkesbury and our reduction is important, but only when the right place, with the right time and the right weather, and our objectives align. We've paused burns in the past. We haven't gone ahead with burns as well because the risk outweighed the reward. But then when a safer window opens, we absolutely took the chance to do those hazard reductions and that responsive practice as well.

Thank you.

So, as phases of the Bushfire Risk Management Plan, which is developed in accordance with our Bushfire Management Committee, with land managers and agencies across the Hawkesbury, this year the draft plan went on public exhibition and we received eight community responses. We considered each of those responses in detail and then incorporated any relevant feedback where appropriate and foremost the interface priorities with the treatment sequencing across the next five years. The next generation risk plan has been finalised from the Hawkesbury Bushfire Risk Management Plan and the risk team, and they've now gone to the Bushfire Coordinating Committee for the commissioner's approval. Once that's endorsed, we'll move straight to implementation with clearer and reportable actions.

However, for the Hawkesbury as well, and the numbers for the 28,000 square kilometres across our risk profile, with an estimated 70,000 residents based on the last census, over 25,500 occupied or private dwellings, with a density of about 25 persons per kilometre, and that's again based on the 2021 census, which means it's probably grown. And the land tenure vegetation, particularly too, 71% of our vegetation is actually owned by national parks, nature reserves, state recreation areas, and they've got a heavy presence in that as well. But why that matters for risk for us particularly is the vast rugged bushlands with our population density, and particularly out in the Wallamai, there are longer turnaround times, access issues, and remote ignitions from the lightning bands that we normally get out there.

And that's why it's really important for us to have those SFAS treatments, APZ treatments, strategic fire advantage zone, sorry, and those treatments to be targeted for the interface in key corridors where risk matters. On elevated risk days as well, our fastest consequences reductions come from our predetermined dispatch, whether it's aircraft, whether it's our brigades, whether it's more water. You know, making sure our fire trails are well maintained, paired with early communication and action from the community is vital. And particularly, again, across those higher risk days, we use those predetermined dispatches of aircraft, extra water, extra support, along substantial static water that already exists in our community.

That model focuses on speed and scale so we continuously monitor and communicate with our community, particularly when it's performing or not performing. In addition, when we have brigades on standby for those higher risk days, those response plans and triggers also guide our response. And whilst we haven't actually faced a bushfire since 19/20, these are some of the improvements that we've made locally for that. Now for our capability particularly, we've received two new state-of-the-art Category 1 village breathing apparatus appliances. They're both online, one at Oakville covering the south and one in Grose Vale covering the west. And those appliances can go to grass fires, bushfires, structure fires, vehicle fires, and any other manner of requirements that we may have.

We've also taken delivery of the new water rescue vessel. It's now commissioned and operational, supporting our SES colleagues during floods and whatever they need from us, but also can assist us with doing any kind of recon from the water for some of those really rugged bushfires. We've also taken delivery of a new Category 11 urban pumper for Woolloongabba that adds capacity for complex urban interface incidents in that area with a high-flowing pump. And we're also taking delivery of another brand new Category 10, and the difference between the Category 10 and 11 is one's all-wheel drive or four-wheel drive; one is two-wheel drive. And those capabilities will take us to three of those appliances in the Hawkesbury, which gives us great capacity and capability for our community.

We're also running more training than ever before for our membership, so they are equipped to be safe, make informed decisions around the emergencies, and ensure that they can get home to their community and their families. Over the next 12 months, we're taking delivery of a new operational command vehicle that will have, or a mobile command post as we call it, that will be able to give our firefighters the ability to communicate during those remote fires. And we're also continuing to look at the refinement of our first 12-hour protocol, including welfare for our firefighters, triggers, relief planning, and future planning for fires. By design as well, out of the recovery for an extended bushfire, now we automatically appoint a deputy incident controller just determined for recovery.

We've invested in faster, more consistent rapid damage assessment and better interoperability with our partner emergency services in that process. While we haven't needed to test these capabilities yet, or a large-scale activation, and touch wood we don't, we're confident in a quicker, clearer recovery plan for the community with the assistance of reconstruction NSW and our partners where required. And as I always say, whilst we as the agency will always do our very best to help and reduce risk across our landscape, and whilst we live in one of the most beautiful areas in the world, that comes with a cost. And that cost is living with fire. And what I would ask of the community going forward is always make sure that we have that five-minute bushfire plan.

You know, who, when, where, and who it affects. Put it on the fridge. Know when to leave. Know the triggers. Understand what to do when fire does threaten. You know, there's some simple steps. We always talk about clearing the gutters, roof, decks, leaf litter under the house. You know, ensure that that ember zone, the ember drop zone, is clear around your properties. Tidy the driveway and access. We can't help if we can't get into your property, and that's a big thing as well. Water readiness to tanks, pools, dams, outlets, you know, any of those assets that we require during those emergencies is absolutely critical for us too. And I can't say it enough: know your triggers. Hot, windy days, and we're seeing it now at the moment.

Ensure that you understand when you're going to leave. Don't leave too late, and leaving early is always the best option. Finally, for that as well, if people believe there is a bushfire risk, I encourage the community to lodge a hazard complaint online. You can do that via the RFS website, or you can contact us at the district as well. So either way is available to the community. For us particularly as well, you know, we will continue planning ahead. We'll continue acting early. We'll continue learning with faster, more informed prevention, preparedness, response and recovery, supporting our membership and learning. Five years on from Gospers Mountain, we all acknowledge the events by improving for the next fire and ensuring that we lower the consequences for our community.

But we'll always need the community's help because as we are, we're a community fire service that relies on the community. In closing, I thank you for the support that I've had. I've been here for a year now, and the support's been overwhelming from the community, and we will continue to work with the community closely to have better impacts and better outcomes as well for hazard reduction and reducing the risk. Thank you for your support, and thank you for having me.

Thank you, Jonathan. You're happy to answer questions. Sure. Just reading on some of the assessment that was put before us, there's an Aboriginal cultural heritage assessment. What exactly does that detail ? For the FCC? Yep

Of course. Yep. So when we, in the early works for the new FCC site, as part of those works, we do some investigations on the site. What that means is the preliminary investigations have found some cultural heritage of significance, and that means that there is further assessment to be done on the site. And that includes investigating, looking at a further area, making sure there's nothing we're going to disturb and what we can do with those assets. And that can take up to, you know, six months or even longer depending on the significance of the assets

Good. And the other one, the air support that is on hand, and what's available if there was another bad fire again

Pre-determined or just aircraft arrangements across

The state? Aircraft that's on hand pretty well straight away for immediate use, and if there was a major fire again, what available air support do we have now? Of

Course. We're very lucky. We live in the area that houses three or four of our largest fleet for our aircraft. So the big 737 lives at Richmond. The new Chinook, if anyone's heard of that, the big Helicopter 211 also lives at Richmond as well. And then you've got the two fire scanners that live at Richmond as well. And then just beyond that at Bankstown, you've normally got two of our Bell 412 machines that they call them Helitacs. And then you've got obviously the on-call firefighting fleet, and then numerous other arrangements that come from Sydney Helicopters — not the team, but the wider area of helicopters that exist in the Sydney area, and then regional as well. So I don't have that number on hand, but I believe it's up to 60 to 100 extra aircraft that they can call upon.

Thanks. Prior to a couple of years ago, we used to rely on overseas support arrangements. Are they still about? Yes, of

Course. Yep. So AFAC coordinates any assistance internationally if the host jurisdiction requires it. We did require assistance during 19/20, and as I said before, we haven't had a fire to test those arrangements since. But as always, if we require any extra assistance from international, the host jurisdiction asks for that assistance, and then normally it will come from America, Canada, some of our closest allies, New Zealand as well. That remains available for us.

Thank you. Any questions, councillors?

Councillor Wheeler. Thanks

Mr Mayor. How are we going for volunteer numbers?

I think, like anything

I would say our volunteer numbers are steady. There is probably a bit of work to do for us locally around new innovative ways to recruit, and look, we're always looking to recruit. I think the numbers probably isn't a concern to me. The concern to me would be that we have been that five years since we've had a bushfire. So anybody that's joined post-2020 has dealt with five years of floods, or five years of rain, five years of COVID, X, Y, Z. So for me particularly, it's more about exposure to those bushfires and how we handle that. I don't know that the numbers concern me. I think it's the exposure that we may have that's more of a concern to me.

Sorry,

Yeah, we've had some significant building fires, but not, yeah, not so much. Certainly not a sustained fire campaign. Fire campaign , yeah. Yeah, I think that's, yeah.

And on that point about the building fires particularly and the fires we saw on the weekend, you know, we are continuously training our membership, and we're doing more training than ever before, particularly with those more complex incident types like the big building fires we've seen and those fast, impactful grass fires that we're seeing, and we are doing— A lot of training with our membership across a wide variety of topics to ensure that we're covering and preparing our people for the best possible outcome when they face those incidents.

Thanks. And I guess, too, how are we with retention? I think we had — and I was one of them — I think we had a number of people who came forward either during or shortly after Gospers. Have we maintained those numbers now that we haven't had anything as dramatic to keep them? And how are we going with — we've had, for example, the last couple of weeks, we've had this really hectic few weeks with multiple smaller incidents just building on top of each other. How do we —

Do we know what the numbers look like at those incidents? Are they enough? And what's the risk, I guess, what's the risk of burnout from things like that? But what's the risk of boredom as well, I suppose, when you join up for Gospers and then you get three years of messing around in boats?

I'll answer the first question first, the retention part first. I would suggest that the retention side of the local district particularly — look, we saw some membership probably take a step back after the Black Summer fires. As everyone experienced, the whole experience was very traumatic for both the agency and community alike. Out of that, we saw some people go, you know, 'I've got to take a break' for a whole host of myriad of reasons. Retention, normally speaking, I think that we retain a lot of experience or exposure, as I call it. But as always, you know, I think that the SES numbers may have peaked during the last couple of years, and we've probably seen a bit of a decline in the people wanting to volunteer.

But the retention issue is always something that it's, I call it ebbs and flows, particularly on the brigade or where we're speaking or what we're doing with the brigade at the time, and how operationally involved the brigade is. Overall sitting, the membership across the district is sitting roughly around the 1,600 membership mark, 1,600, based on latest numbers. Out of that, you know, I would suggest that maybe three-quarters of that are operational, and out of that, I would suggest that maybe half of that is continuously operational or doing something for the brigade. So that's the retention part, I suppose. And then the other part of the question, I think, was more around what are we doing to keep them with the operational numbers.

We've seen a spike this year in operations for us, particularly across the district. As you quite rightly pointed out, over the last couple of weeks we've been very, very operationally busy. I think for the most part, nothing beats real-life exposure, and our membership having the ability to go and experience that firsthand. Whilst we don't ever want that, because that generally leads to, you know, problems for the community, there is a fine line in that training versus reality scheme, and we've always found that by implementing training and then they go to a real-life incident, they go, Oh, that makes a lot of sense, that I've taken this practice and put it into skill. And again, right, we never want operational incidents, because that means something's gone wrong.

But I think that we are actively engaging our membership to a level that is allowing them to feel fulfilled and serving their community, like I said before.

Thank you for that presentation and that update. It's really good to hear the number of hazard reductions that have been done. I think people are very interested in that, and to know that there's still more to come. I'm just wondering, just as Councillor Wheeler was asking about the numbers and the retention, we're so fortunate, of course, to have the high numbers of volunteers that we have. I'm just wondering, you might be able to answer this or you might not, and it's probably reasonably political in a sense, but is there any advocacy around the whole future of having a volunteer force essentially doing the work that would otherwise have to be paid for? I'm just wondering, when you see these ebbs and flows of numbers, is there any plan for the future around sort of modifying that in any way?

I mean, I have to say that on Saturday or Sunday, where there was the fires west of the river, I was driving down and I saw the Tennyson Brigade coming with its tinsel-decorated front and everything, and I just thought it really just hit me that for all these people giving up their day, you know, moving into Christmas and everything, that it's so valuable. But I'm just wondering if there is any move to address how the future will look in that way.

It's a very technical question.

Sorry.

First and foremost, I would say that volunteering or volunteerism is the heart of the Australian spirit. I think that you can look back across a number of events, whether it be a disaster-led event or whether it be a humanitarian aid or whether it be a community function. There are always volunteers that want to do something for... Something more than themselves. Volunteerism is quite complex because with the cost of living and with the current environment that we face, see ourselves in, there is probably an element of people staying the question where their — not loyalty, loyalty is the wrong word, but I think where their focus is. Whilst I don't believe that we are at a period or a spot, particularly in the Hawkesbury, where we have to look for alternatives to volunteerism, because I must say we never don't not get a truck on the road.

Whenever someone calls triple O for a fire in rural fire district, we never not have a truck on the road. In fact, we have always two or three trucks on the road, and on Saturday is a very, very good example of that, where we had upwards of 25 brigades and upwards of 75 firefighters on the ground, you know, doing what they love, right, protecting the community. So I don't know that we are at that point where we have to have the discussion around what's next, because I haven't seen it firsthand where there is a volunteerism issue in the Hawkesbury. And even when we talk about floods or, you know, I go back to the Varroa mite back in 2021, where the bees were all going to die from this little Varroa mite, and we had volunteers going up and helping that, you know, that whole escapade as well.

So I think that whilst ever we have the Australian spirit, I know that's a very throwaway comment, but it's very important to realise from our perspective that I think they do it because they have a deep sense of community. They have a deep sense of their community. They want to help in any way they can. So the answer to your question is no. I don't think there is a reason for a discussion yet. However , I think for the most part, whilst ever we have strong membership and a strong volunteerism that is doing the job,

Don't fix what's not broken, almost, is probably would be my baseline response, if that answers your question.

It does, and thank you. And I wasn't for a moment suggesting, you know, I mean, I value what the people do just so highly. So I wasn't suggesting there's any issue around it. It was more just that, and you touched on it briefly, things like cost of living, the cost for employers in small business to have their employees out on fire. When we have lengthy things like Gospers was, when you've got months and things, you know, I mean, there's a limit on the sustainability of that in some economic times. So I agree, you know, don't try and fix something that's not broken. But I just think there's probably more challenges, and potentially also with the movement of our volunteers going overseas and overseas coming here with extended fire seasons, as we're seeing fires overseas burning, you know, not necessarily seasonally.

So thank you for your answer on that. It wasn't meant to be challenging. It's just something that I think that inevitably one day it could be an issue, and if governments and people haven't looked at how they would service the area in that regard, it's a bit of a problem. But of course, I hope we never lose that Australian spirit you speak of, so it should never be an issue. No

Not at all. And again, you know, from my perspective, I think that it's really important to acknowledge the work they do and how much time they put into not only the agency but the community around them. And I think that— Whilst they have that deep sense of community, that they hold in touch with that, you know, we're always looking for new and innovative ways to recruit and to retain. You know, it's like anything. But I think that we're not at a point where that discussion has to happen just yet because we have strong numbers. They're doing the response, they're doing the preparedness and prevention. So whilst they're doing that, yeah, I think it's don't fix what's not broke.

That's great, thanks. I just have one other question, is that okay, Mr Mayor? And that was around neighbourhood safety centres. Yeah , sorry,

Neighbourhood safer places? Yes

Yeah, could you just update us around that and anything relevant to that that you think we should be aware of?

So neighbourhood safer places, where they're trying to rename them to Place of Last Resort. There is

Probably a longstanding history with neighbourhood safer places that come out of the 2009 Coronial Inquiry out of the Melbourne Victorian bushfires. They were designed in 2009 for a place, and I say the words, of last resort. There was probably a bit of a community expectation point around when there is a threat that appears, community members, when faced with a decision, will normally take and look at university science and research, but it's always the easiest option or the path of least resistance. And normally how that works from a university research perspective is that they'll wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, and this was before warnings and alerts were in place in Australia. The fire will impact.

It's been too late. I want to leave now and go to my place of last resort or a neighbourhood safer place. There are a lot of legislation requirements for a neighbourhood safer place, talking about a football field size, like 100 by 100 metres, essentially a little bit more of a clear area that needs to exist for it to be categorised as a neighbourhood safer place. There is strong debate for and against neighbourhood safer places, and I talk about the Hawkesbury in that there are two customers that I would say, and when I say the word customers, just people who are going to use them. You've got your community that wants to use them, but for us particularly, we have the added expert—sorry, the added risk of tourism.

So, and Bilpin's the prime example of that. It's a summer day, it's a Sunday, you've got members from Sydney city going up to test the cider up there and they're having all the fun in the world, and tap, something happens, and they go, No, it's all good, we're fine, it's okay, and then they want to go to the neighbourhood safer place. So they'll then ignore the warning signs that we're sending, being, you know, stay in place, shelter in place. They'll drive, and then there's more risk because they're on the road. It's smoky. They may not get to the neighbourhoods table place, which then causes more issues for everybody involved. So it's never the community I'm worried about, because the community should have those set expectations about when to leave and when not to leave.

It's always been about the tourists that come into the area and giving them an option outside of just leaving. So if they know that there's a second existence to go, oh, let's go to the neighbourhoods table place, then they may not leave as early as I want them to leave. So that's a bit of the science and the arguments for and against neighbourhoods table places. Look, I think there is a place for them. The Hawkesbury Bushfire Management Council is made up of a number of agencies. From the Hawkesbury area, us, national parks, the Land Conservation, you know, so there's a number of people on the council, and we are discussing back and forward around the requirements of a neighbourhood safer place and where we can put one.

Investigations are ongoing because of the requirements under the Rural Fires Act and the BAL ratings and the space that's required to create one. For example, if you took the, and I would say Bilpin's another prime example of that, the school that's at Bilpin, you would have to demolish that entire school and some to create a neighbourhood safer place that actually meet the requirements under legislation. So there is a lot more to that discussion than just putting one somewhere, and it requires landholder consent. It requires a lot more planning from us, the BFMC. So there is a lot to that discussion and argument around where would we put it and how would we put that there and how would we market that as well.

So, yeah, I know that's a very rounded answer for that question. The truthful answer is it's ongoing. We are investigating it, but it's just that it's the general size of what you need that is the problem, and that area is hard to come by.

Thank you. No, that was a good explanation. Thank you.

Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Superintendent, can you explain the process that's used to select sites for hazard reduction each year?

So hazard reduction is driven by a couple of things. First and foremost, it is driven legislatively by the risk plan. The risk plan and the current risk plan has what they call an annual works program. The annual works program is decided on by the BFMC. The BFMC will have a look at the strategic fire advantage zones, or we call them thresholds essentially. There is a balancing act between ensuring that the biodiversity and the actual conservation of the area we're looking to treat has enough time to regain its health after a low-intensity burn. And that threshold can be anywhere between seven to 14 years, depending on the type of environment we're dealing with at the time. So first and foremost, that drives it a lot.

So basically, if it's in threshold, and you will start to see, if you look at the, and again I'll go back to 19/20 with the Gospers Mountain burn scar, that burn scar is still in threshold. So that is seven years, and I think part of it is 10 years before we can start treating that risk again. And that is from a perspective of, I come back to, we live in the most beautiful parts of Australia, so if we want it to remain that way, we need to give it a chance to regenerate naturally. So SFAs is a big reason, or the threshold is a big reason as to what drives that decision-making. So once we get past threshold, we talk about risk rating. And the risk rating comes from a number of factors based on conservation, the environment, houses, people, infrastructure.

And the APZ, or the underlying risk plan, will guide that process, and then we'll rank those priority areas from one to 10. And then the Bushfire Plan, or the management committee, will then go away and undertake those hazard reductions based on the plan, you know, out of those local experts. And the committee is made up of local experts from a number of agencies that know their land, that know the area, that know the risk. So that's what primarily drives how we select hazard reductions and what makes it work.

Thanks . I've got two more questions, if I can, Mr Mayor. If someone believes that there's an area that needs, that is hazardous, that needs a hazard reduction, what process can they go through?

First and foremost, hazard complaint. So if you believe there is a, we call that a hazard. If it requires a hazard reduction, then we're reducing the risk. So hazard complaint is the first step. Again, that's on the Rural Fire Service website. It should be, I think it's in like, there's a section on the left-hand side about risk, and then you can go in there and lodge the hazard complaint. That process then comes to us locally. We will go and assess the site. We'll go and look at it from a tonnes per hectare, the risk, the area, what it looks like, and how we can treat that risk. If there is a risk, we will treat that risk. If there's not a risk, then we'll dismiss the complaint. But we'll also work with our stakeholders, being the land manager of that area, because it's not all public lands.

So if it's on park, if it's on private land, if it's on council land, we'll then work with those stakeholders to come to a solution to manage that risk if there is a risk rating there. Secondly, you can always chat to the district as well. Send us an email saying you want to do a hazard reduction. We can assist you with that as a private landholder burn, or we can go and put it into the risk plan as we see fit to try and get it conducted as well. So they're the two paths you can take.

Like, Councillor.

Could you just explain what an SFAS is for the uninitiated?

Strategic Fire Advantage Zone. So again, I kind of touched on it before in the address. It's written into legislation. It's essentially an area that we look to treat that... Very basically gives us an advantage zone from fire. So if you look at a, if you draw a box and there's four houses around the box, you are creating a strategic fire advantage zone by reducing the risk to then allow those homes a lesser impact from fire. That's a very basic term of what an SFAZ is.

And that then, so that then determines how that space is managed?

Yes, correct. And then that goes back into threshold. So once we treat that risk, then that goes back into a seven or 14-year threshold or whatever the threshold is for that area based on the conditions of the, we call it a HRC or a hazard reduction certificate. That is again part of the process that we go through to start those hazard reductions, and then when we get into those thresholds, we can start looking at treating risk again.

Thank you, Jonathan. Very, very good. Thank you.

Okay.

Okay, the Director Infrastructure

Will give us an update on the Fire Control Centre. Thank you, Mr Mayor, and through you. So, Councillors, I'll take the report as read. To embellish on that or to add some additional information. So, the decision you might recall was made quite some time ago to pull together the SES site on Kermond Road and Six McKinnon's into the Hawkesbury Emergency Precinct. That was split into three stages to primarily make the project a bit more manageable and also to manage some grant funding deadlines that the SES had to do various works to their site. The primary purpose, though, of the precinct was to coordinate the activities and ensure that the precinct worked in concert with each other and we weren't creating conflicts.

I know for the SES, moving their entrance off Kermond Road onto McKinnon's was a really important one for safety for trucks and their members for access and egress into the site. But included in that is also some more formalised car parking, site fencing, site lighting, assisting with security, and particularly for their members when they go off on extended deployment, that there's security for vehicles and possessions and so forth. The Rural Fire Service were good enough to include in that first stage one, along with the SES works, which are funded through the Macquarie Emergency Services Grant, some funding to fully develop the fire control centre, plus do some early works that would enable and work with particularly the access and egress for the SES.

So that's some, and it remains to be seen until we get the final. Detailed design estimates, but do some early earthworks primarily around car parking, access roads, internal access roads, and possibly the joint training facilities as well. So stage one is looking to commence procurement in 2026 and delivery thereafter. We'll have a better understanding of the program for those construction works and exactly what fits within those construction works once we get those tender responses, which we're looking at in the middle of 2026. Stage two is then the construction, substantially the construction of the fire control centre and the associated buildings, including the district stores. And I've lost track of whether the catering brigade is still within the FCC.

No, it's a standalone building. No, it's in the shed. That's right. And associated works, civil works, upgrades to electricity, water, power, etc. So the part of stage one was the full development of that project, the full designs up to construction or issue for construction. As Mr Hill outlined a couple of months ago through the regular investigations, a number of artefacts were identified, Aboriginal cultural heritage items, which then triggered an Aboriginal cultural heritage assessment. Now, we're not anticipating that to have any great impact on program because the bulk of the construction funding wasn't due to come through until 2026, 2027. There was always a gap in the program between the finalisation of the design and then the funding coming online.

So whilst the process, as Mr Hill outlined, can take, you know, six months and potentially more, we're not anticipating the impact on program to be equal to that. It will be some months, but not the full six months. And then the final stage, Stage 3, which is very much conceptual at the moment. There's no intention to commit any funding to this at the present time. It was more to preserve an area for a future all-agency accommodation-type facility to support, particularly in the instance of flooding, our community when bridges are cut and we lose access across the river. That was included in the precinct so that we could, as I said, avoid any conflicts and not sterilise the site as we proceeded with Stage 1 and Stage 2.

So Stage 2, the construction of the fire control centre, we're looking to undertake procurement in 2020, the second half of 2026, 2027. And once we get tender responses back and understand what that program looks like from a contractor's perspective, that will give us the deadline or the end game for construction and then moving the service into the fire control centre.

Thank you.

Any questions, councillors?

Councillor Wheeler.

When will we get a look at the design

Of the fire control centre? So it's sitting at about 75% at the moment whilst we wait for the outcome of the Aboriginal Cultural Heritage Assessment, and that is to allow for any— changes that may be prompted by that assessment, if there has to be, you know, some artifacts are found and amendments have to be made to that design.

So that, as I said, we're looking at about six months. We could arrange, I'm sure, a circulation of the plans as they currently are. The internal layout hasn't changed significantly from when it was proposed to be over at Woodlands and on Ironbark Drive. The orientation on site, the district stores and the training grounds to the east are different to the, of course, the Ironbark Drive. They respond to the circumstances of the site. But we could probably in the new year arrange for circulation of the plans at 75%.

Thanks Thank you. After recommendation, Councillors.

Move that way, Mr Mayor.

Deputy Mayor. Councilor.

Deputy Mayor.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. I would like to thank Superintendent Hill for addressing Council this evening and Mr Barden for his assessment of where the fire control centre is up to currently. And I think that will give the community a lot of encouragement in terms of the fact that the fire control centre is on its way. It is proceeding and it is something that will be delivered to our community because we essentially need that very much here in the Hawkesbury. I just wanted to remind those who are here or who are watching at home, I believe this is being live streamed, that today's disaster and emergency committee meeting is actually the result of a notice of motion that was resolved at Council on the 4th of November.

2025. Jointly between myself and a couple of other councillors who felt very strongly about putting on the public record the correct information into our community about bushfire preparedness and risk. That notice of motion came from an orchestrated and deliberate campaign by a local media group to spread fear and misinformation in our community. Sadly today, as a result of this meeting going ahead, that has actually got worse in our community. I was told today that if I turned up to this committee meeting tonight, that there would be a report about my personal life put online tomorrow. That is one of the most appalling, disgusting, unhinged, and quite frankly unsavory things that has happened to me in a decade sitting in this chamber.

I was essentially told through a third party that if I turn up today, I will be attacked. That is a threat. That is harassment. That is blackmail. And for that person who is absolutely watching the online meeting here right now, I have gone and made a report to the New South Wales Police about your conduct today. You cannot act in a way that blackmails me from undertaking my civic duty or my elected responsibility in this chamber. I will involve the police when you try and hurt and harm my life and my family. Now, based on saying that, let's talk about the topic that we have at hand. Bushfire preparedness and risk is so important, and to have the official agencies such as the RFS, and in our case sitting in here, Hawkesbury City Council, to have their hard work in the community undermined the way it has been is one of the worst things that I've seen in this community in a very long time.

The RFS is by and large, as touched on by other councillors here tonight and the presentation that we received, run by volunteers, as is our SES. Those volunteers are the heart and soul of our community. When somebody dials triple zero to have someone attend to an emergency situation, they need to appreciate the training, the dedication that has gone into those individuals having the capability and the capacity to be able to help our community. To have that volunteer organisation undermined the way that we have had recently by our local media is appalling. On top of that, our local council, the body which I am elected to represent and defend, has also been under attack. We have staff sitting in here today who work so hard in our community, who turn up to our community hubs every time there is a national disaster, who have community members cry on their shoulders every time we have something happen like this.

And to say that our staff here, or our volunteers who are Hawkesbury residents, are not doing what they should be doing is fundamentally not okay. I want to put on the record that nobody sitting in here should ever be intimidated not to do their job. And what has happened today is something that I'm happy to put on the public record. This is how low— Things have gotten in our community right now, where if you have a disagreement or a difference of opinion with the local media, you will be attacked and you will be blackmailed. I cannot understand the level of obsession with both Council and the RFS and the spreading of dangerous misinformation into our community. I think it's important. Mr Mayor, I've just realised I don't have a timer.

No, you don't.

Can I just keep going then? Don't give me a microphone and no clock. Look, I'll end it there because I know I get a right of reply. So I just wanted to say again a huge thank you to both the RFS, particularly the volunteers in our 23 brigades, and also our staff who go above and beyond. We also have as a Council the disaster and emergency dashboard, which is, I think, a fundamentally valuable tool for anyone in the community who wants information at the click of a button, where it pulls in all of that data from the police, the SES, the RFS, the weather, the BOM, all of those agencies into one particular portal. And that's something that our Council implemented. That's not something that other councils have.

I know we received funding to do that, but it certainly, I think, has changed the landscape here for the community to have access to fast information. I'll leave it there, Mr Mayor. I'll welcome the other debate from my fellow councillors, and I'll say more with right of reply. Thank you.

Thank you, Deputy Mayor.

Thank you , Mr Mayor, and thank you to Mr Hill for updating us on what is, you know, one of the most important issues that we face in this community. It's really important, and we cannot underestimate the importance of precise, accurate information being out there in the community. I think we're all, as councillors, we're probably all mindful as well that within this community we have people come and go. So we actually, we saw that particularly with the floods, that we had many people who'd moved here, and they'd never seen a flood. And to have so many floods one after the other was probably quite an eye-opener for them. But with regard to people who move up and into the bushland areas in particular, many of those have only come here recently.

And it's just really important that we play our role in having, through a committee like this, for example, having a presentation given like that that's accessible to people who may find it through that path. The RFS does a wonderful job with their Get Ready weekends, and they do a wonderful job with their getting information out. But we all know that when the internet is flooded with so much information that people come upon things through different sources. So the more reliable and accurate sources of information that we can support and have available is really, really important. I think that the questions asked to Mr Hill and the answers that he gave were really valuable in giving us a greater understanding.

When I asked about, you know, the potential going forward, I didn't for a second undermine the continuity of volunteerism in this community, which we know is one of the highest, you know, overall in all our sectors, whether it be for our cultural— Facilities , or whether it's with our nursery or whether it's with the RFS. But the Hawkesbury are great volunteers. But I do think that governments should perhaps be thinking about this and a bit more forthcoming, you know, with funding around this type of thing. And they probably hear that regularly, but I think it's an ongoing discussion. That also goes for the SES and any other organisations that are keeping us safe here all the time. Thank you to Mr. To Barton for the update on the fire control centre.

That gives a good outline on when we're to expect to see more, so that we can answer the questions that we receive around this, which is also a very important thing. So I think it was important to have this meeting. I think getting something in a presentation form that gives us an outlook for the season to come, which it's very hard to gauge that from, you know, other sources. It's best to hear it from, you know, directly from the source that knows what they're talking about. So I appreciate that, and I hope that the information gets spread throughout the community so that people have a reliable source where they can access it. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Mr Mayor. I think this has been a useful exercise in that we're having a bit of an update before we have a problem. The terms of reference for the Disaster and Emergency Committee often mean that we meet to discuss something that's happened. You know, we meet after the event. I think it's quite useful to meet. It's probably quite useful to meet on a Tuesday after a really busy Saturday and Sunday as well, where we saw, as Superintendent Hill said, 25 different brigades involved in that incident on Redbank Road, which really could have got out of hand. You know, we had really bad weather on the weekend. We've got a hotter weekend coming this weekend. If we get wind with it like we had last weekend, then people are really People are really under the pump, pardon the pun.

Yeah, and I think it's, I think we have to be cognisant of the fact that we are relying on people who do this for free in their spare time, and many of them give up a lot of time with family, time with, you know, time from work. Some of them take on less work in order to spend their time with the RFS, just keeping us safe. This isn't like the city where something catches fire, you make a phone call and a truck full of paid firefighters turn up. The people who turn up at your house here are the people who live down the road from you, and that's a huge thing and something that we need to be really grateful for, I think. We also need to be mindful of the fact that correct information in this space is really important because people go by what they read, particularly what they see on social media, and when that information isn't correct, it leads to people making poor decisions and lacking trust in the organisations that are there to protect them.

Council isn't the combat agency in these spaces, and council isn't the decision maker in these spaces. We are, for better or worse, one of the funders, usually with fairly ill— we grumble a lot about our place in the funding of the RFS, but we don't, we have a member on the Bushfire Management Committee, but we don't make the decision about where hazard reductions occur. We don't determine what's done in all the spaces or how the RFS is deployed or any of those things. So where people are angry with council, or have misconceptions about council's role, that does have knock-on effects to the RFS. Misinformation in these spaces is dangerous. We heard from Superintendent Hill that one of the things that's really important is that people heed warnings and leave, and leave early, because when they don't, it puts other people at risk.

Their neighbours who come and help, RFS members who feel compelled to come and help with evacuation and property protection. So we need people to trust the services that we have. And we've had various campaigns of misinformation over the years about fire management and how that occurs, a variety of opinion, very little of it evidence-based about how that should occur, and that has had knock-on effects. I mean, I was held personally responsible for half of Gosper's Mountain for most of 2019, and a good slab of 2020, because I'm a member of the Greens, the Greens being such a powerful organisation on the average Bushfire Risk Management Committee. So we see over and over again that a lack of understanding of how this works is detrimental.

And I think the power of a meeting like this, when nothing bad is going on, is about discussing how people can act when there is a crisis and how they can get ready. And I think for people who didn't go to the Get Ready weekend, get onto the RFS website and find out what you need to do, those really pivotal things like clearing up around your property, looking at the ember drop zone. That's most of the Hawkesbury. You know, I can remember in 2019 standing outside and having embers fall on our house in the middle of Wilberforce. Just because you don't live in the middle of the bush doesn't mean you're not vulnerable. Really simple things like driveway access. Can a fire truck get into your property to fight a fire or to put out a fire if your house catches fire?

Tanks, pools, dams and outlets. Something that, just because you can get a trickle out of your garden hose, doesn't mean the RFS is going to have access to enough water to defend your house. Knowing when you're going to leave and the days that it's not safe to stay at your place. These are really important things. These are conversations that you have to have before a fire hits. For all of those people who've moved to the Hawkesbury since Gospers Mountain, really sit down and have a hard discussion about whether it's viable for you to stay home or whether it's safer for you, your pets, your family and the people who will come to defend you if you just get out of there for a couple of days. Where are you going to go?

What are you going to take? How are you going to get there? Is there petrol in your car? Can you catch your cat? Really basic stuff like that so that you're not fuddling around when an emergency hits. And that information about, if you think you've got a hazard, whining about it on social media is not the way to fix it. Get on, report it, and get somebody who knows what they're looking at to come out to your place. Don't whip yourself up. Don't try and deal with it yourself. Don't talk to, you know, Joe down the road who told you that he was really big in the RFS when he was 20, but now, you know, can't fit into his trousers. Do something proactive. Social media is not proactive. That's the end of my rant.

Thank you

Thank you, Councillor. Councillors, while we're unlucky in the sense that we need our SES and the fire brigades, we're probably the luckiest in the state. The SES, when they've gone in state competitions and even national competitions, in national competitions either, they usually win. And occasionally they've put two teams in, they've won, both of them, first and second. And our fire brigade's not much different. If anyone doubts that, they need to go out to a place called Oakville and stand toe to toe with the brigade out there. And that's not putting down any other brigade, but Oakville's outstanding. With the people that, and when I say the people, they're our community. They're our neighbours, our mates, brothers, sisters, some of them.

They also play a big part in the roles of the services that they're involved with. To suggest that those people who volunteer their time, their energy, and in some cases their life, wouldn't stand ground on something that was maybe heading in the wrong direction would be pretty poor thinking on anyone's behalf, that we would have people that would do that and then turn around and do nothing. These people are goers. They do things in the community. They're involved. They understand their neighbours. So from time to time, there are people who have different points of view, some for all sorts of reasons. Some of them because they felt in danger at a particular time. Others that think that they know better than everybody else.

So it's just not the BrASs, as we call them, of those organisations. It's the membership and the people that's involved with them, and our council staff here today. We've got more in the gallery than what we have sitting around our table, but they're sitting here for nothing. I suggest they want to be informed and be able to correspond to us in a proper way and relate to the people they associate with in our community the proper information direction that's been forwarded in both directions. So while there's different points of view from time to time, and I'm glad the councillors, the four ladies actually, and council that brought this matter up, I thank you. It's important that that information is directed out to the community in a proper fashion.

If some of that misinformation was in a format that it had either professional people within the organisations or council or indeed councillors behind those comments, I'd be concerned about it. Usually that's not the case. It's one-off. People are entitled to their opinions, right or wrong, they're entitled to them. And I don't think our community's idiots. I think they can read people and understand things that are put before them in a proper manner. The comments were made. The council will have finished up on about when there's issues in our community to deal with it in a proper fashion. I think our community's smart. With the floods and fires we've had, we've been extremely lucky, and that's not a coincidence.

That's through good management and structure. And sometimes that goes pear-shaped, and no one would understand that more than the people involved with it. So, Councillor McMahon, thank you for your motion.

Any further debate? Councillor McMahon, right reply.

Thank you, Mr Mayor.

I do want to say that the information provided here tonight has been absolutely invaluable. I am pleased that it is on the public record, that it's being live-streamed to our community, and that it will be on our website as a permanent record of accurate and timely information about the upcoming bushfire season. I do just want to touch on the potentially new fire control centre that's coming our way, and as I said previously in my opening address, happy that Mr Barton has confirmed the procedure and the process for the different stages that are coming up. However, I want to put on the record as well the possibility of something that the Hawkesbury has never seen before. And sometimes when something bad happens, as it did with the first site and we ended up with the second site, and let's not rehash that drama, we have actually ended up with a better site that enables us to have, down the line, an emergency services precinct.

And I have been on the record when I was the mayor saying this many, many times. The thing is, government will never be able to fund that level that we need, whether that's adding to the site that council owns, an ambulance or a helipad, whatever it might be. The best way that we can achieve the funding for those kinds of services is through developer contributions, through a voluntary planning agreement. And we know in this room we have planning proposals potentially coming to this chamber with significantly large developments in our community. And if those powers are taken away from us and they are implemented by the state government to deliver those developments, the real say that we get in that process is through a VPA, where we can say to those developers, if you're going to build 4,000 houses, then out of it we want something back for the community.

And it doesn't get through until we negotiate what that might be. And I have said it plenty of times, as I've said, that I would want those negotiations to encompass discussions around funding those extra emergency services west of the river, so that we can holistically own a precinct where where we are cut off from fires or from floods, that those 30-odd thousand residents west of the river have access to those emergency services, and we don't have to have police cars or ambulances parking themselves at St John of God as the only means for those services on the other side of the river. I do want to say again, and sorry, Mr Mayor, I know you won't like it, but the local media that has been put onto the RFS and the council really has been a vehicle for personal vendetta.

The damage caused has been immeasurable. And I know I'm not the only elected person in this room who has had countless members of the community contact them in utter distress about the attacks on their organisation. Sitting here tonight, again just to reflect on what I said before, I was told that if I don't manage my conflict of interests, then there will be personal repercussions. And I say this to the person who made that accusation. If you think I have a conflict of interest, you put in a code of conduct to the general manager. That is the process of how you do things. You don't threaten people with their personal lives. Councillor Wheeler was right to touch on the impact of inaccurate social media posts, and I think it's important that we consistently direct the community to the correct sources of information.

So whether that's the RFS website, the council website, our Facebook pages, the police, I think that if we continuously push those positive messages that this is where you get your information from, then people may have a better sense of being prepared or not being so scared about the upcoming season. I will finish off, Mr Mayor. I'm conscious of time. I do want to say that obviously tonight we focused on the RFS, and hopefully for one of our future disaster and emergency committee meetings, we can have the ambulance and the SES and fire and rescue give us presentations on where they're up to as well in terms of their preparedness for our community. And I think it's important that we end the meeting tonight stressing the absolute need for community cohesion, for unity and for positivity.

None of us want to be sitting around this room talking about the latest attack from the Gazette. None of us want to do it. We want to see, oh my goodness, there was a positive story out there today. Oh, we just celebrated little Jimmy getting his soccer goal. They're the things that we want to talk about in our community. The hatred and the division needs to stop. Thank you, Mr Mayor.

Thank you, Councillor. The recommendations on the bottom of page seven, councillors. Those in favour?

Those against? The agenda

Do you need the names called

Councillor, this is emergency management update. Was there any matters that deals with this matter of emergency committee meeting?

Well, thank you, Councillors. If there is anything that comes up, forward it to the General Manager

The gallery, thank you for attending today. Appreciate it. And that concludes our meeting. Thank you.