13 November - Ordinary

Ordinary meeting of 13th of November 2018. I'll start by acknowledging the traditional owners of this land where we hold our meeting and pay my respects to elders both past and present. And I'll hand over to the General Manager for some procedural matters.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. Members of the public attending the meeting are advised that in the event of an emergency, you will be asked to proceed in an orderly manner to the nearest exit, following the guidance of our warden. I'd also like to advise members of the public that in accordance with clause 6.3.1 of the Code of Meeting Practice, meetings of the Council are recorded. Council's Code of Meeting Practice and meetings are recorded in the terms of the Privacy and Personal Information Act. This may involve the recording of personal information provided at the time of the meeting. The recordings are made to assist staff in compiling the minutes of the meeting and to enable the podcasting of Council meetings.

The provision of any information that is recorded is voluntary. If any person does not wish to be recorded, they should not address or request to address the meeting. The recordings may be made available to other persons where such access is in accordance with the relevant regulations, and the recordings are stored on Council's record management system. For the benefit of those persons who will be addressing the Council tonight, it is expected that you will refrain from making any insult, allegation or personal reflection against any person, present or not, at this meeting. This request relates to both your address to Council and any answers given in response to questions from Councillors. Finally, it is also requested that if any person in the Council chambers has a mobile phone, that they either turn it off or turn it to silent.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you, Mr Conroy

Do we have any apologies for tonight?

No.

Do we have any declarations of interest?

No.

I'd like to acknowledge we have two official visitors to the Council: Council's auditor, Mr Alexio Jabica from PricewaterhouseCoopers, and Ms Samaya Ahmed from the New South Wales Audit Office. I might invite them to come forward and give the auditors' report, which is part of item 271, please.

Thank you. Good evening, Mayor and Councillors. My name is Samaya Ahmed. I'm the Director of Financial Audit from the Audit Office of New South Wales, and with me I have Alexio Chibika, the Audit Manager from PwC. Firstly, I'd like to thank you for providing me the opportunity to present tonight. We plan to take you through the results of our audit and a high-level snapshot of your council's financial performance compared to the industry benchmarks. It's very pleasing to see Hawkesbury City Council maintaining a good net asset position, good results, and a good performance against industry benchmarks. It is crucial to have strong controls and financial reporting processes to continue this positive result.

Having a strong internal controls and governance framework and strong financial reporting processes will ensure that the council can make informed decisions to achieve its long-term strategic objectives. Our role as the auditors is to provide you independent assurance over the financials. In addition, the Audit Office can help the council with consistency in the financial reporting process and more confidence in the financial data, and also allow you to better benchmark yourselves against other councils. The Audit Office provides both financial audit and performance audit services, and the reports of these audits are tabled in Parliament and available on our Audit Office website. You may recall in April 2018 this year, we did table our first sector report to Parliament, and we reported some consistent themes across the sector.

We also produced a short video to highlight some of the high-level findings of the report, and we released a data visualisation tool for the sector. This can be used to assess your own council's performance and benchmark yourselves against other councils. This is available on our website. The Audit Office also conducts some performance audits. The performance audits aim to help the councils improve their efficiency and effectiveness. They also provide the community with independent information on the performance of the councils. This year we tabled three performance audit reports: council reporting on service delivery, fraud controls in local government, and shared services in local government.

Again, a copy of these reports can be found on our website. We have completed our audit of the general and special purpose financial statements and the relevant special schedules, and I'm very pleased to report to you tonight that we issued a clean audit opinion of your council's financial statements. This means we are happy with the financial statements and are comfortable that there are no material errors or issues. Our report on the conduct of the audit is included in the business papers today. I just wanted to highlight a few key items from this report. Council's operating result of 18.3 million dollars was marginally higher than last year. Then the revenue and expenses remained largely constant.

Cash and investments increased by 14.2 million dollars, mainly due to receipts of developer contributions. However, it is important to note that much of the cash and investments is restricted, which means the council is constrained from using them in terms of outside funds. There are some externally restricted and internally restricted amounts. The Office of Local Government Code also sets out several ratios with expected benchmarks that each council has to report against. The council exceeded the Office of Local Government's benchmarks on some of the financial performance ratios in 2018. This is a very positive result. However, the council did not meet the benchmark for the operating performance ratio.

This indicates that the operating expenditure exceeded operating revenue. The industry benchmark is to break even. The ratio did improve slightly since last year, as there were some lower operational expenses and a slight increase in the rates revenue. Council also did not achieve the benchmark for outstanding rates and annual charges. The ratio reflects the time lags in the recovery of uncollected rates and annual charges. The industry benchmark is to keep this rate below 5%. The council's ratio was 5.6%. Council's building and infrastructure renewals ratio was also below the benchmark. The benchmark set by OLG is 100%, and the council's ratio was 65%. This was due to lower asset renewals this year.

However, overall, the council has reported very good financial results for 2018, and I do congratulate management on this achievement. As we complete our audits of the councils this year, we are again seeing some key things coming across for the sector, and these include asset management, governance and internal controls, and more specifically, IT controls. We plan to highlight our findings in our next report to Parliament, which is expected to be tabled in March 2019. Once again, I thank you for inviting us to present our audit result for the council, and also to management for their cooperation with us to achieve a successful audit. Through the Mayor, I'm happy to take any questions on this.

Thank you, Ms Ahmed. Thank you very much. Are there any questions? Deputy Mayor.

Thank you. Yes, thank you for that. Would you say then that with the ratios that didn't reach the benchmarks, particularly the one regarding the asset renewal, do you see that will be improved now we've got the special rate variation in place? With the asset renewal ratio, we actually don't audit that ratio in particular, that particular ratio. However, that ratio is in relation to how quickly the assets are depreciating and how quickly the assets are being renewed. What we also need to consider is where you have new assets, investments in new assets, that is not being considered as part of this ratio. It only looks at existing assets and renewing those assets. So we do need to also look at the other side where the council may be actually investing in new assets.

Councillor Rasmussen. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you very much for that presentation. I'm sorry I missed the first part of it, but could I just ask you whether, in your opinion, council's financial position is sound and stable?

From what we have seen, yes, the council does have a good net asset position, so it is quite sound.

And stable. And stable. Thank you. Could you also let me know what were the fees you charged council this year?

Our fees that was initially mentioned was $80,000 excluding GST.

Oh, and that remained at $80,000?

We will have discussions with council in the future in relation to any other fees that we may have. But at this point it is $80,000.

Thank you. So you expect it to increase?

We did have some additional work that we had to do, and we haven't had that discussion with management as yet. Once we have that discussion, we will agree on an amount that we have to do in terms of additional work. But that was outside of the scope of the work that we had originally planned to do. Okay

Thank you.

Councillor Ross.

Thank you, Mayor. Good evening, Madam.

Sorry

I wish to inquire in regard to the shortfall in the receivables criteria , 5.6 to 5 percent benchmark. Would you accept that

Ratepayers within the LGA have options available to them which would result in the non-payment of their rates as an immediate cash outgoing , but have other arrangements which are permissible with the Council, either in regard to a long-term situation in which interest accrues or other hardship and pensioner situations and so on. And does the 5 percent in fact take any or give any cognisance to that fact, please?

I don't believe it does, but I may refer that to management in terms of how they manage that aspect.

Yes.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. With the outstanding ratio, it doesn't include any payment arrangements. Also, Council doesn't pursue legal action on pensioners. So when we discount those items away from it, it's actually 2.02 percent. So if we were able to encompass those arrangements and exclude them from the ratio, then 2.02 percent is a pretty good result.

Further questions? Yeah. Could I just make the point, Mr. Mayor, to our honoured guests that—

Statistics and dampened and statistics

However, we have to report against the OLG benchmarks. I guess OLG probably may need to consider that. However, we won't be able to change that.

Any further questions? Thank you very much. Is Mr. Chabika going to speak too, or just— Not really. I was just

Here to answer any questions that are specific to the audit, but since there are no questions, I won't be saying much more.

Okay. Councillor Rasmussen

Just one question. I'm sorry about this. Can you tell me what your fees are this year?

PWC?

We actually have a total fee. So 80,000 is actually including PWC and our own fee. So we have an oversight fee and PWC have their actual fee. The total is 80,000. Perfect.

Thank you.

Thanks very much for your time tonight. Thank you. Thanks for the report. There's a recommendation on page 56. Does anyone wish to move that? Councillor Rasmusson does. Councillor Connolly wishes to second it. Councillor Rasmusson, you wish to

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just a quick one. I think, again, Council demonstrates its capacity to manage the finances of this LGA extremely well, and as we heard from the auditors, Council is again accoladed with the good words of sound and stable financial management and accounts. I think that's very significant because I think for almost, not quite, for as long as I've been on Council, we have heard that from our external auditors over the years, that this Council manages to— Balance its budget, do what's necessary out there in the community, and then come up with a score of sound and stable financial position. And I think that says a lot to both this council and also to the staff who work really hard to make sure those accounts come in in that way.

So I want to thank the staff who've worked really hard, and I know they do, really hard to achieve this result. And it's not only just this year, but it's been, as I said, over many decades that I know of. So I want to thank staff for that, and also I thank this council for making sure that we stay within our means and that we plan and work and do what we need to do accordingly. So any silliness about this council being in a non-stable financial situation that might be running out there is obviously very false.

Thank you. Any further speakers? If not, I'll put the recommendation. All those in favour say aye. Those against? Declare it carried.

I rush to have our guest speakers speak. I've overlooked the confirmation of the minutes from the previous meeting. Moved Councillor Connelly, seconded Councillor Rasmussen. All those in favour say aye. Declare it carried.

We're doing agenda item subject to public address, and the next one is item 269. We have a visitor here, Natalie Richter, who has made herself available to answer questions on this. She doesn't particularly want to make a speech, so what we might do is ask her to the microphone. And if anyone has any burning questions about item 269, please ask them now.

Looks like you might be getting off the hook. Councillor Ross has a question.

Excuse me, Mr Mayor, I have a question, but I don't think it's appropriately directed to the person at the roster room at the moment. Can we

Wait? Of staff, please. Can we wait a bit later for that?

Certainly. I'd just like to alert you to that.

Yes, okay. Thank you. No more questions of Ms Richter.

No.

Thanks for making yourself available.

Recommendation. You're moving the recommendation. Second. Councillor Conolly, seconded Councillor Rasmussen. Councillor Conolly, do you wish to speak to that?

No. Any speakers for or against item 269? Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Mr Mayor. I speak in favour of the application. I just want to flag the treatment of the vegetation on site. So there is some loss of vegetation on that site with an offset mechanism that's being used, and I would just really like to flag that and make sure that there is no net loss of vegetation. I'm not— A great fan of offsetting. This hopefully will allow the vegetation to be better placed on the site to link up with adjacent vegetation, and that seems to be the plan for this property. It also seems to put the vegetation around the existing dam, which is a better outcome than an empty open dam as currently exists. So I just want to flag the dam, should there be an attempt to dewater the dam, that should be done using a dam dewatering policy, and hopefully the vegetation plan will end up being as good as it looks in this.

And I'd like council staff to keep an eye on that if possible, please.

Thank you, Councillor Wheeler. Councillor Ross, you had a question.

Thank you, Mayor, staff if I may. Could I refer staff to firstly figure 14, page 37, recommended vegetation area. Inquiry there is in regard to the roadway element adjoining the rail line. It is marked in figure 14 as terminating at the

End

Of the property to which we're focusing our attention at the moment, and halting at property DP 22419.

Is that correct, or does the road reserve extend beyond that point, please?

Mr Conroy. Yes, Aaron.

I'm not sure that if it extends on beyond that point, but I can get back to you on that.

Thank you. Mr Mayor, I would also like to just move slightly into the area of speculation, if you would call it that, in that the roadway which fronts, shall we say, this particular two blocks has a rather peculiar junction with the Windsor Road.

If this goes ahead, does Council have the facility at a later juncture, presuming that this will be developed for its intended purposes, to put in a slip lane along this road up towards the junction with Industry Road in the initial instance, so that left turning traffic into Industry Road might be better accommodated than is at the present the case, please?

Mr Perrottet.

Yes, we can take that under consideration. We're looking at the traffic movements in and out of the site.

Any further questions? No, I think the staff for their time. Thank you. That's it. Okay. Any further speakers? Councillor Kotlash.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. I was just wondering , I think this is a really good report and it was very comprehensive and it was, you know, it was easy to... to read and to comprehend, but when I saw the reference to the environmental, the Hawkesbury Employment Lands Strategy, which was dated 2008, I logged on and had a quick look at it, and it struck me that the data in that report was two censuses ago . So we've had the 2011 census and the 2016 census. And I thought it was particularly pertinent because the data that it talks about is all about, you know, the ratio of people living in the area and whether they work in the area and et cetera, et cetera. So I was just wondering, when does a plan like that become kind of obsolete in terms of this sort of planning? Because I know, I think it was adequate, but I just wondered whether things have changed. How do we

Do that? So I take the point that it is, I suppose, a strategy that will be reviewed and therefore we will have more up-to-date information. But in terms of assessing planning proposals, we can only look at the policies that are adopted as opposed to what we know may be happening on the ground. But I suppose in terms of this process, there's still a long way to go before this gets finalised, and I would hope that as this is going through its processes and we're doing our updated planning, we'll have more up-to-date information then

Any further speakers? No, I'll put the motion then. It's the recommendation on page 40, I believe.

All those in favour? It's

A

Planning matter

We've got to do the buttons, okay.

Okay, so after I push this, you may now vote using your buttons on the count of three. One, two, three.

In favour of the motion, Councillor Ross, Councillor Rasmusson, Councillor Garrow, Councillor Reynolds, Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Kotlash, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Tree, Councillor Richards, Councillor Calvert. No votes against, so I declare the item, the motion carried. Thank you very much.

Guest speakers, we have some guest speakers for item 2.7.6, which is Notice of Motion 3, Streamwatch. First speaker is Margaret Smith.

Mr Mayor, councillors, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for the opportunity to support this motion. Streamwatch is a very reputable citizen science project, started in 1990 when some schools were involved. Currently, under the auspices of the Australian Museum and funded by Sydney Water, it monitors the health of waterways in many parts of New South Wales, particularly the Sydney area. It has a very small administrative team and many volunteers. Unfortunately, next July our funding is to be withdrawn, and this means we are looking for funding and a new home.

Volunteers in Streamwatch are all trained in the field and at the museum. Schools have had minimum involvement for many years now. Our work is monitored and inspected for accuracy and quality. I and other local volunteers did 24 hours training in the research laboratories of the museum to qualify to identify macroinvertebrate life in streams, which is a means of assessing their health. Health of the streams, not the macroinvertebrates. Testing sites were west of the river, Amini. There are four groups west of the river, each monitoring up to four sites in different parts of the catchment. Each site is identified by the museum staff and is sampled monthly. Data is recorded and provides an accurate picture of water health over many years.

Sampling and analysis of each sample takes two hours. Culturing for bacterial content is then complete 24 hours later, and the data is recorded at the museum. It's available from the museum internationally when other countries are comparing their stream health with

Ours

In the Hawkesbury, Streamwatch has identified pollution incidents including oil and sewage spills, and pollution caused by inadequate building practices and lack of compliance with council conditions. Council has been informed and been able to take appropriate action. This has prevented damage to human and animal health and ensured clean water in our streams. This information is provided to council free of charge. There are hours of work professionally carried out in each sampling. This work is vital to ensuring that clean water is available to all of us. For council to fund this work would involve full-time professional staff to monitor the entire catchment, not to mention equipment and consumables.

It would be almost impossible for council to afford. Western Sydney University Hawkesbury campus has science researching water, and we work with them. Our volunteers have helped train and monitor some of their students. These researchers tell us that the Hawkesbury River is in great trouble and needs all the help it can get. They advise you not to swim and certainly never to put your head beneath the water. Hawkesbury campus is discussing Housing Streamwatch, but cannot fund it, so we are looking for sponsors. We're happy to support this motion, but suggest that council liaise with other councils to apply pressure at state government level to continue funding for Streamwatch after July next year.

Two , that it would be a good idea to calculate the cost to council as water becomes scarcer and a similar service has to be funded. Consider carefully before allowing overseas agents to buy and export our water and enforce all existing conditions. Clean water is essential to all life. For humans to survive, it must be cared and planned for.

Just by the by, that's all I have to say about that. But you may be interested to learn that the cleanest water entering Redbank Creek is from the sewage works at North Richmond. However, that also contains sex hormones, antibiotics and illicit drugs. Which only the university can test for and which currently cannot be removed.

Thank you, Mr. Smith. Are you okay if people ask you questions? Yes, sure. Are there any questions? Councillor Kotlash.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Mr. Smith. I was just wondering, have you got any idea why the funding for Streamwatch has been cut?

Yes, state government cut the funding to the Australian Museum. The Australian Museum has started some schemes which make more money for it, and this one is a cost, not a profit centre. So, of course, the Australian Museum losing its funding cutout as many things as possible.

So it wasn't the state government saying that Streamwatch go away; it was a cost saving.

It's cost saving. Sydney Water also have had their funding cut by the state government, so they find it difficult; they can't continue to support either.

Thank you. Councillor Zamprogno, you had a question.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Smith, thank you very much for your presentation. A common refrain that I hear among colleagues that care about the health of our waterways is not that we have a lack of good data, that we have plenty of good data, but it's the difficulty in translating that data into actions that will positively influence the quality of the water thereafter. It's that link. Could you comment on whether you think this initiative will also help better inform actions that will actually improve water quality

Yes, I think so. If it's taken over by a reputable university with environmental... Credentials . It will because the samples that we take can also be used by them, and their sampling is much more sophisticated than ours. And planning departments, I assume,

Will talk to people like the university water people, and they have an enormous amount of data about how much water goes into the river, where it comes from, etc. And as planners in council, you need to know that, because otherwise, with a thousand extra homes, a thousand extra toilets, showers and kitchens, you're not going to be able to supply water.

Okay.

Another question. Councillor Rasmussen.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. Mrs Smith, thank you very much for that erudite presentation. Always good to hear you talk about a subject that you're obviously very passionate about. And clearly you have that sort of background and understanding of our waterways and our streams. I also want to thank you and your volunteers, because clearly you have done this over many, many years now. I'm not sure how many years, but I know, I think it goes back to my time on council when, in fact, I think council paid for some of the Streamwatch activities. I'm not sure about that, but I think it did .

I don't know about that.

Yeah, I go back a long way.

I've been involved for six, seven, eight years. I'm not sure how long.

Anyway, so I want to thank you and your volunteers for that and encourage you to keep that going, because it is important, as you point out. Now, can you tell me, if you know, how much money on an annual basis are we talking about here? Several millions, hundreds of millions of dollars or something?

No, no, no, no. Something like, although I'm not supposed to tell you this because it varies from year to year.

It's about — I'll put fingers up and you can wink or nod

It's about $200,000 a year, and that includes this staff.

Goodness me, that's a very small amount, I would say. When state government is sitting on $4.7 billion surplus, I would have thought they could find $200,000 to keep this sort of thing going. Anyway, thank you very much, Mrs Smith, and I hope you keep going, and we'll work hard to try and find you sponsors or keep this program going.

Thank you very much. Thank you

For your attention. No, thank you, Mr Smith. I think that's it. Thank you. Thank you. Our other speaker is Mr William Snedden. Councillors

Gallery, I am speaking in favour of Notice of Motion 3 , Streamwatch, and all four points in the motion for Council. I speak

With experience. I was in a Streamwatch group for approximately six years, 2005 to 2011. South Creek Watchers was an unusual group, only two members, partly due to my science training and experience doing environment monitoring as a paid scientist. We tested South Creek underneath Railway Bridge and a small tributary flowing out of the industrial lands along Faerie Road, emptying just downstream of the Railway Bridge. Testing included pH, phosphorus, turbidity, dissolved oxygen, conductivity, and total microbial count and coliforms. In 2008, we won this. A Streamwatch Outstanding Community Award. Only two of us. However, we continued on till about 2011, at which stage, for various reasons, we stopped testing.

But we had done some things that we'd set out to do. We were trying to find out the condition of South Creek. There were various illicit discharges going into the areas, so I'll read a little bit more from my notes here. Testing along South Creek identified some local catchment problems, including illicit discharges from South Windsor Industrial Area to the wetlands and South Creek. Tortoise and fish kills were occurring. Our test data helped council officers and Sydney Water to stop these activities. One lovely thing was washing trucks over a stormwater drain with highly alkaline detergents. It did lovely things to the long-neck tortoises. It was horrible. In fact, there were photographs in the Hawkesbury Gazette as a result.

My mate had good knowledge of that water catchment area. Our testing also coincided with the major problems with water hyacinth and salvinia weeds, which infested our rivers and creeks. We had complete mats across the river at various stages. Action was taken by New South Wales Water Authorities, and funding was gained to stop the weed problems that were there. So the local county council now has weed harvesters, etc. They removed salvinia weed, and also they pursued the weed back up into the dams and small holdings that got washed down during rain time. So that complete blocking of the river is no longer to be seen. In fact, if you mention it now, people look at you blankly. They have no memory of it.

Our results and reports feeding to the data justifying the funding to stop the aquatic menace that I've just discussed. Streamwatch is now considered part of a worldwide citizen science movement. In fact, it's been quoted as an exemplar movement in reports that I've heard. It provides the important things that it does. It provides a proper test kit and methods to citizen science groups at no direct cost to them. This is extremely important because if you set out to do testing and wish to speak to authorities, unless you have valid methods and kit, your results will be completely anecdotally treated, and you don't have valid data to log into a database about the environment. There's also supervision and quality control to the groups.

This ensures valid scientific reporting results for the Streamwatch database. The other thing is it also, in the case of Margaret's group, they had training in inverted testing at university level so that the people out there are proper on-the-ground quality check people. Streamwatch also leverages citizen time to allow water testing beyond the budgets of state and local government bodies. Citizens can also get into places that you would never be able to afford to have a person go to. It might take them half a day to get into an area, do one test and come out. You couldn't justify that for one of council's environmental officers. Education is also important for school students and others on scientific method, testing and data processing.

Further, environmental testing not available otherwise is created at fully valid scientific standards, and that goes into the database. That's why the university or somebody needs to hold that and make it available for planning and all sorts of other purposes. And with the population expansion around here, there were problems at Redbank that Margaret documented. There's a whole lot of other things happening. As we shove more population development in, all those watercourses and environment areas are under pressure. I'm very disappointed. The small cost of Streamwatch appears to be being cost-shifted out of— cost shift. Streamwatch out of existence. Perhaps this is no longer core business for the Australian Museum, Margaret's confirmed that, after it was handed on by Sydney Water, the funding of Sydney and the Sydney Catchment Authority.

In fact, on this paperwork here, the title of organisations are Sydney Water and Sydney Catchment Authority. So funding for the organisation for Streamwatch is now being disappeared. More cost shifting that councillors speak about all the time. I commend this motion to help preserve Streamwatch and its clean citizen science. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Snedden

Are you okay to answer any questions? Certainly, sir. I'd be very pleased to. Councillor Rasmussen.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. Mr Snedden, thank you very much again for that presentation, and I know you're passionate about this subject as well as most of us are. Can you give me an estimate of the amount of time over the years did you have spent gathering data on streams and so on?

We were an exceptional group. We had some— my partner had some particular issues about things going on in the local watercourse. So Streamwatch normally test monthly. We were initially testing weekly in order to establish a rapid database of what was happening in South Creek and etcetera. Then we transitioned to two weekly for at least six months and then to about monthly after a while. However, I was in the position with him that if something was going on unusual, there was foul water being discharged, etcetera, I would get a phone call, we'd just drop the hat. But to do a testing round, the two of us to go down to South Creek in the tributaries to take the water out, you'd be looking at, say, a minimum of a two-hour stretch just down along the watercourse to get down there, come back, for an hour or so running the samples through.

But then with the microbiology, that was done with Millipore filtration system, and so that was run through everything done aseptically. I'm trained in microbiology, so I did all of that. I helped him with some of the other chemistry. So a testing round would be— At least between us on a day, four hours each to get to sample to the end of testing. Then the microbiological samples were on little agar dishes. They were in an incubator overnight. They had to be read the next day, and so I would go and do that and interpret the results as required. So then when you have all that information, you get it together, and then it was entered on computer into the StreamWatch database. So I had a contact where I would go and she would help me enter the information.

So there was actually three people involved because my mate and I weren't on computer, and we would go and do it. But the other arrangement with him was that, as I said, if there was something unusual, he would go and chase it. Now, the other thing that was going on by having this qualified test kit, if he saw something, he could go out and do conductivity or turbidity measurements. We had pH test strips, and one of the tricks he used to do walking around was leave pH test strips if he was concerned about things. And when the council rangers or Sydney Water responded, they would go around and see these test strips where he'd been. So it gave extra clout. The other thing is the cost of the equipment and the setup is beyond the ability of a normal individual, and that's where StreamWatch really comes in heavy because it gives you proper methods and equipment so that the results you produce are valid.

They would stand up in a court. They're certainly scientifically valid for writing papers, environmental monitoring, and ongoing looking at the watercourse, etc. And as Sydney grows, more and more pressure in the environment and all of our streams, etc. Water, Council, Rasmussen, you would know, is becoming more and more a problem in the Hawkesbury for irrigation and other things. So keeping the tributaries, etc. clean and also inflows from sewage, etc. is important. The other thing is Sydney Water, in a way, this goes back to StreamWatch, to Bob Wilson, who was the general manager of Sydney Water. When Sydney Water was under enormous environmental pressure to clean up the sewage outfalls and things, so part of the genesis goes back to Bob Wilson, I believe.

Sydney Water then. About 2010, when we were starting to slow up my group, that was when Sydney—the museum took over. Sydney Water, somewhere, the bean counters obviously said, This is no longer core business. Thank you, Mr Smith.

We might have to— Thank you.

Thank you, Mr Smith. That's probably too much, but— No, no, no, it was fine. Thanks very much.

Certainly a comprehensive answer to Councillor Rasmussen's question, so thank you. Thank you. Thanks for coming. That's the end of the speakers on this matter. Councillor Wheeler is moving this. Do we have a seconder? Second. Councillor Lyons-Buckett. Councillor Wheeler.

Mr Mayor, I've got a slightly revised motion which is now on the board. So, as you can see, the only change is to item 4, which is to soften that point slightly. The university at this point hasn't formally decided to request to host the Streamwatch data collection. They're trying to secure funding to do that. So point 4 probably better reflects that position than the previous point did. I think the speakers have very elegantly covered the need for this program. It's not just a local or Western Sydney issue. Canterbury-Bankstown Council passed a similar motion on the 16th of October. They're the reverse of us. They're a smaller LGA with a very dense population, one of the densest currently in the Sydney metropolitan area.

They have a number of rivers that are under serious population pressure from development and from the increase in hard standing and the like. And they've seen, with this loss of funding, even though it's not being wound down until next year, they've seen already a loss in Streamwatch activity in their LGA, and they've had massive improvements to the rivers around there, particularly the Georges River, which has gone from being— A really festering waterway to something that people are now happy to use for recreation purposes, and Streamwatch needs to take some credit for the monitoring involved in getting it to that point. But already they're down to just two functioning groups, and volunteers are being told that they can't be inducted into the program because there's no continuing funding.

Here we still have groups, as we heard from Mrs Smith, working actively on locations throughout the Hawkesbury. I think this is the most marvellous program. As a scientist, to see citizens engaged in science at this level is really heartening. We bring people into sport frequently. We make attempts to bring people into the arts. Very rarely do we bring people into science at this level with this sort of support for such a modest fee. To take a group of school children or interested citizens and skill them up to the point that they can actively collect, read, and enter data on a sample and give us longitudinal data, in some cases over more than two decades, is actually extraordinary. Until you've worked in science and tried to tease out information and get your hands on data with this level of validity and that lasts for this long, you can't fully appreciate how extraordinary this data set is.

It gives us baseline. It gives us data where you can see an incident occurring. It's highly useful for councils, as you've heard, for compliance issues, for catching things before they escalate, for monitoring an environment to see if it's safe for a community to use and how they can benefit from it. And it's actually a very small amount of money. The budget figures I can find from Sydney Water are from 2014-15. It was $215,000 was the allocation. That is such a small amount of money for such a valuable data set. I take Mrs Smith's point that Council should perhaps liaise with other councils. Clearly, that's happening in isolated cases. For example, Canterbury-Bankstown. I don't know if WesRock is the best place to do that, perhaps through the City Deals with its focus on South Creek, or perhaps better would be a letter from the Mayor to surrounding councils asking that they get involved in this.

The University of Western Sydney is very keen to host this data set. They have the staff capacity in terms of knowledge. They don't have the funding to hold the data at this point. They're attempting to pursue that. Research funding for academic institutions and for research organisations is always difficult to find and always involves lengthy and tedious grant applications, unfortunately. But letters of support from organisations like supportive councils are always viewed well by funding bodies. One of the advantages that Western Sydney has is that it has a number of campuses, many of which are surrounded by rivers. So it's no accident that they have the skills to assess this data, and hopefully we can support them in their wish to host it into the future, because to lose this would be a very, very great loss indeed, just at the time that population pressures on Sydney show that we really, really need to monitor the health of our waterways and to continue this valuable data set.

Thank you, Deputy Mayor.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. I'd like to thank Councillor Wheeler for bringing forward this motion. I know we've seen the demise of Streamwatch over the years. In fact, in the 1990s, I used to run the local Streamwatch group for Little Weenie Creek in Kurrajong. And the value of that was that we had data. We were building data from different areas of the creek, with another group running it downstream where Big Weenie Creek is. So it was giving some very good baseline data to see the impacts of development occurring within those areas and seeing the changes that were taking place in the waterways. We're so lucky to still have pristine waterways in some of our areas, and it's really important that we scientifically monitor.

The health of those waterways, and I'm not sure what happened to all that data that used to be on the Sydney Water site. But I'm talking about 1990s when I used to do it, and I think at one point the Western Sydney University was developing a portal for collating information, but I'm not sure what happened with that. Also, a few years ago, of course, we had the river keeper who was actually going up and down the river, and the funding was lost for that as well. So that was an initiative that we brought up in the Sustainability Committee in the last council, and unfortunately there's not the funding for doing that. However, I think that we should be encouraging the, not that it's up to us, but we certainly should be encouraging to get the university to host a portal to keep all this data, but also encouraging the schools to get back into it.

It was very rewarding to work with schools doing that, young children, senior primary students, learning how to monitor the aquatic ecosystems. They would take the pH. They'd identify all the various insects and so on associated both with the water and the surrounding area. And it was a really valuable experience for me and for the children at the time. Also, I think that the monitoring allows us not just to identify the impacts of chemicals and pollutants going into the river, but also to be on the spot to identify the impacts of the growing demand on our water, as we have areas that are pulling from the water supply where we don't have reticulated water, and also where we don't have sewer, and we've got increasing runoff from various effluent systems and so on.

So I think that a few years ago it was a Streamwatch group that identified a major incident at North Richmond due to their testing and the rise of the faecal indicator organisms that were in there, who And that enabled it to be traced back and identified as a cracked pipe in a shopping centre. So that was really valuable. It may have gone unnoticed and been a bigger public health issue had it not been identified at the time by the local Streamwatch workers. So I support Councillor Wheeler's motion. I hope that the university will come on board. I hope that the government will see the value in supporting science in this respect, because I think it's very, very valuable information to have, and I hope that it can just continue in some shape or form.

So thank you, Councillor Wheeler.

Thank you. Any further speakers? Councillor Rasmussen. Yeah,

Thank you , Mr Mayor. I want to echo in some ways what both Councillor Lyons-Buckett has said and Councillor Wheeler, because the school science program that could generate or could be generated out of this would be an outstanding program in the schools for young budding scientists. Now, whether they will go on and do environmental or other science, it doesn't matter. But that burning interest in science and the ability to analyse, to look at things logically, to come up with conclusions, I mean, that is what science at the grassroots is all about. We talk about STEM. Well,

Yeah

This is part of the STEM program, and it's in our community. We've got elderly citizens, many of them retired, with highly skilled people who are prepared to put the training and the effort into doing this and to work with the kids and to make that Community science program come alive, and I think that to the benefit of all of us. I mean, water, clean water, as Mrs Smith said, there's nothing more central and important to our civilisation than clean, clean water. So science in our community is as important as art in the community, and any other activity that we do and fund or support in our community. These are really worthwhile programs. And I just, obviously the Australian Museum has downgraded the priority on this program, and that's sad.

But maybe they are so squeezed for funds from the state government. Sydney Water may be in the same situation, although I do have some knowledge of that. I'm not sure that that's the case there, but they've chosen obviously not to continue the funding, by the sound of it. So I think we've just got to boost our lobbying, I guess is what it should be called, and I think we ought to raise it to the state government level because the Australian Museum and Sydney Water, yes, they are dependent on state government for funding, and if priorities shift around, then maybe the real issue is with the state government or the ministers. We will all know that the office of Hawkesby MP, that once did an awful lot of good work, that was abolished.

And if we had abolished Streamwatch as well, I mean, what if we abolished the river as well one day? We just abolish it, and maybe we'd save a lot of money. Look, I know that's a silly comment, but it just seems to me that further and further we are back-walking anything to do with clean water, our river system in this valley. I just don't think, I think it's got to stop. And I think maybe the motion should be beefed up a little bit by saying, well, we will take something to the state government to get this funding. It is not a very large amount. Goodness me, they spend more on lunches and travel per year than that , and I don't know what benefit the community gets out of that. But I think we just need to perhaps think about whether or not that motion should be beefed up and include the state government as well.

Thank you, Councillor Rasmussen. Councillor Kotlash.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. I'm speaking against and for this motion. There's some bits of it I'm really not that happy with, but anyway.

Can I just say from the outset that I've been working on monitoring rivers and streams for about 28 years, and so I've had lots of experience with the issues that are involved in Streamwatch. In fact, I used to assist primary school teachers deliver their Streamwatch programs when I was the environmental scientist for Water at Blue Mountains Council. So, like Councillor Lyons-Buckett, that was in the early 90s. But anyway, however, look, I think that Streamwatch is a terrific educational tool, but I think it's morphed into a program that's now being used for a purpose that it was never designed for. In my opinion, the water quality part of the Streamwatch program does not lend itself to a citizen science program.

I say this because the variability in water quality parameters in a flowing stream is enormous, and the amount of sampling required to accurately determine a baseline or a characterisation of each of those parameters is equally enormous. So taking one sample, let's say of 250 millilitres out of a stream which has many thousands of litres of water at one point in time, maybe 12 times a year, illustrates this. And confound matters, the sample was probably taken at the edge of the stream where water quality is different, is different from the middle of the stream. So it might be desirable to have a very long data set, but if the samples that you're collecting in the first instance are not a representative sample of that particular stream, then it renders that data a little difficult to work with.

And I think that you have to be very specific when you're talking about this sort of monitoring. We need to start with the end in mind. When you go out to monitor something, you need to know why you're monitoring it and not treat monitoring like an end in itself. And I think that Streamwatch to some degree goes to this. I understand that it can be used as an early warning method , but really to have that as your objectives are very hit and miss. I mean, that's a big ask because, you know, a cracked pipe upstream might just as well have been a dog poo upstream. So whether you can actually pinpoint that to that degree is debatable. But on the other hand, the other part of StreamWatch that I think is very valuable is the BugWatch annual survey.

The rationale for using water bugs for assessing the condition of streams is twofold. Many properties of water which is valuable to humans are essentially biological, so you can't characterise a scheme by purely physical and chemical means. The second concept is that water bugs, particularly because of their sedentary nature, provide an integrated picture of conditions past and present. So if your water quality is poor, you will know it from the condition of your bugs. You'll know it from the diversity of the bugs and what's missing and what's present. And you don't have to do that every month. You can just go and do that annually, and that is a very, very valuable dataset. So it's important that we don't lose that.

Having said that, I'll just go to the notice of motion. I want to clarify a few things. I'm not all that sure that I understand exactly what we're asking here. The first point, yep, we note that this has been valuable, yes, I agree with that. But point two,

I just wanted to add that agricultural activities are just as detrimental to waterways as development, and I think we have to keep in mind that there's an awful lot of pressures on waterways, and, you know, we should start to get an understanding of that too.

I've said before that I don't entirely agree with the value of the datasets in terms of their inherent value. A dataset is only valuable when you can use it to answer questions that you have and to seek answers and characterise situations. Now, I think the rub is points three and four. I'm not sure. We're asking the museum, Sydney Water, to keep funding the work? Or are we asking them, and are we asking Sydney University to just hold the data set? So is there— I'm not quite sure what was happening there. Are we going to lobby them to reinstate the funding, or are we going to do both?

Councillor Wheeler, would you like to answer?

Sorry, pardon me for speaking across the chamber.

Point three would be ideal. It would be ideal if the museum and Sydney Water kept the data long term. If they can't or won't, then it needs to find another home, which Western Sydney are hoping to provide. Does that clarify?

Yeah, I think personally what we should do to make Streamwatch work for our LGA is I think we have to liaise a bit more with the University of Western Sydney— sorry, Western Sydney University, sorry, sorry, we've done that for a while—because I think that they will be able to help us address the issues that I spoke about earlier. We have to start to really be able to use our data much more effectively than we are. So maybe just scrap— well, maybe not scrap three. But anyway, so I'm happy to support this, but I just wanted to make those comments about how careful we have to be about how we fund particular— aspects of science for citizen science. But, you know, I'd support developing these sorts of programs.

Thank you, Councillor Kotlash. Any further speakers?

Councillor Wheeler, would you like right of reply?

Thanks, Mr Mayor, and I thank the other councillors for their input into this.

I'm not trying to present this data as a panacea. For what it is, it is good, useful data, and it has had great uses. There are plenty of other water sampling projects going on, very often by students from Western Sydney University, where they're looking at specific areas with much broader sampling regimes than people are able to affect here . I think it certainly did begin as an educational tool, and it did morph into something different. In fact, it seems to have left its place in schools and become much more a citizen, and whether that's a result of a jam-packed school curriculum or issues with kids clambering around at the edge of streams, you know, no one cared in the 70s, 80s and into the 90s whether we fell in or not.

These days you can't even get your shoes dirty. So , but I think, and I appreciate Councillor Kotlash's comments about, you know, starting with the end in mind and why monitor, but we do have examples where the monitoring just isn't done, and this is the only monitoring that's done, and we can't afford to do this by any other means. It's just not possible. And without citizen science engagement, it's not possible for us to obtain this data in such a cost-effective manner anywhere else.

I think the involvement of the University of Western Sydney in the use of this data would be extraordinarily helpful.

But they're very keen to continue the data set that exists and to continue to use it as well. So I hope that you can support this. I would be happy to include a call for the state government to fund this. But I think at the moment the funding is a Sydney Water requirement, or has been a Sydney Water requirement, and I think it's probably most effective that we lobby the two parties involved, the museum and Sydney Water, and let them know that councils do actually use this data, that it is helpful for us in relation to compliance from development and from agricultural activities. Certainly that was one of the impacts on South Creek was from agricultural industry. So I think it's still useful that we talk to these organisations.

I'm assuming that they're talking to those that fund them up the line and that the message that they can't just write off programs like this needs to be getting through.

Thank you, Councillor Wheeler. It's been moved by Councillor Wheeler, seconded by Councillor Lyons-Buckett. Excuse me, Mr Mayor. Yes. Is it possible to make a contribution? No, we've had right of reply, sorry. Hope I didn't ignore you earlier, did I? Yeah

It's been moved by Councillor Wheeler, seconded by Councillor Lyons-Buckett. All those in favour say aye. Those against, declare it carried. We have no mayoral— sorry, that's the end of the item subject public address. We have no mayoral minutes and no items to be done en bloc, so we move to other items. First one is item 270. Do we have an introduction for that item, Mr. Conroy?

We do, Mr. Mayor.

Every year towards the

Middle of the year, Council adopts its operational plan. That operational plan sets out Council's objectives for the coming year and sets

Out its objectives and actions and projects for the coming year. And tonight we're considering the annual report for the 2017-18 financial year. The annual report contains references to the Community Strategic Plan, and in this case that's the plan that was adopted in 2017, so that was the first year of the current Council. In addition, the annual report includes references to the delivery program, to Councillors, and again to matters such as Council's functions, work health and safety, together with statutory reports that are required pursuant to the Local Government Act. So it's intended to be a report that's utilised by the Department of Local Government, but it's also intended to be a comprehensive report for the benefit of community members who are interested in looking up a particular item.

Thank you, Mr Conroy. We have a recommendation on page 50. Would someone like to move that?

Move that , Mr Mayor. Seconded,

Councillor Kotlash. Councillor Rasmusen, do you wish to speak to it?

Mr Mayor, only very briefly and to say I want to thank the staff for preparing this document. It's quite a big piece of work, and yes, they've done it, I think, in an exceedingly— Professional and good job for the Council, and I think it does give a great level of insight as to where and how and when the money that Council derives from its rates are going to be spent to the benefit of the community. So I want to thank the staff for that effort and commend it to Councillors. I think I noticed, just as an aside, Mr Mayor, I think it was on page 26 of the attachment , if I can just quickly go to it, I noticed that there was a graphic in there which was actually a mirror image of what it should have been. I don't know whether anybody else picked that up, but I think I did. So before we send it anywhere, maybe we just do the reverse mirror image of that graphic. Page 26?

Well, I thought it was 26, but maybe it wasn't.

Anyway, somewhere in there. I picked it up, but now I've been

To 26 and it's not that. So

But anyway , somewhere in there, and I will write to Mr. Kynroy and point out which page the graphic has been reversed.

Thank you. Any further speakers? No? I'll put the motion. All those in favour say aye. Those against? Declare it carried.

Our next item is the Waste Management Advisory Committee item 272, which has a rather lengthy recommendation on page 62. Do we have anyone to move that? I'll move

That, Mr Mayor.

Moved, Deputy Mayor, seconded Councillor Rasmussen. Deputy Mayor, you wish to speak?

Just briefly, I think it's well written out what went on at that committee. It's a very productive committee. We've had a diverse array of information that we went through at that committee, and I'll just draw attention to a couple of those things so people are aware of them going on. In our efforts, our continuing efforts to reduce the amount of landfill we have, along with our rehoming facility, which we feel needs to be somewhat better advertised and the community to know more about its existence, we're also setting up in conjunction with HEN a register of existing repair, people who repair things, because it's come to our attention that a lot of people don't know where they can get things fixed and so on.

So that was another thing we discussed. Coming up this Saturday is our inaugural second-hand Saturday, which is where people have registered to hold a garage sale. I can't think offhand, maybe the staff can help me here. I think it was 85 registered addresses, which can be downloaded from the website, and people can get out there and start hunting for a bargain around the place. So that was a good initiative. It was replacing what was the garage sale trail, which we had to pay for, and we actually moved to doing something that we just did ourselves without having to pay for it. We also went over a number of discussions about the life of the waste management facility, which Mr Organ updated us on, and we're still waiting to hear some more about those sort of initiatives.

And I think that it's just one of those committees where we're moving on and getting on with what's happening in that area. I'd be happy to update again at a briefing, or however we decided we were going to give a report of the actual committees. But I commend the minutes to the council for confirmation. Thank you.

And your moving recommendation on page 62 . Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Just to add to what the Deputy Mayor has already said, there's a clear desire within the community to start a reuse, repair, remake facility in the Hawkesbury, along similar lines to the Bower in Parramatta and the Inner West, but perhaps with a greater community empowerment capacity as well. There's already groups seeking to obtain this funding with council support. Hence recent AGM. They're setting up a repair database. They got a lot of buy-in at their AGM with a great list of people who can already fix stuff, who are willing to share out their services either for payment or for trade and barter to do that. So I think it's time that council led on this issue instead of waiting for the community to sort this out.

We've got space. We're on the edge of the growth sector. We've got our own tip. We've got community groups with the willingness to make this happen. We need to make this a priority. There's also a clear wish to do more with organic waste. So obviously composting at home is the best option, and council's facilitating that through a series of workshops. But it isn't always possible or desirable, so we need to investigate a way to get the 40% of the waste in our red bins, which is compostable organics, out of our landfill. It costs us money. It makes our landfill less viable over the long term. It produces methane. It stinks. There's no good coming out of people still sticking their kitchen scraps in their household waste bin, and we need to make a move on this.

We had a lengthy discussion about whether adopting Penrith's little brown bin method was viable in our very different population spread, or whether the environmental outcomes of that were even better or not as well. And I think that's something that's going to be revisited. But we certainly need to put some more resources and energy into dealing with organics. And there's two additional appointments that the committee has requested that Council agree to. So one is the appointment of a student representative from Western Sydney University. I was approached by the head of their sustainable agriculture course asking if we could put a student on that committee, in large part because it's really good training for the student in the glacial pace of local bureaucracy, but also it's a really terrific way of transferring information between the two organisations.

The Constitution already allows for that appointment. It seems that we haven't ever approached the university to have that position filled, and so no one's known about it to fill it. Hence the appointment of a representative from the Hawkesbury Environment Network would require a constitutional amendment, though, which the committee is seeking from this Council.

Councillor Zamprogno.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. It's just to seek clarification about whether the form in which the recommendation exists before us itself causes Council staff to incur any costs, or whether the form of the recommendation simply permits a report to come back to Council or to that committee about the cost or practicability of those actions, because we've got— We've got a recommendation in several parts, each with sub-parts. Some of them seem quite specific about mandating the creation of a database through the council's website, which would undoubtedly cost money, and some use a form of words like working towards or investigating. So I'm just concerned about any potential messiness in the form of words before us. The general impulse behind this, I think, is a commendable one, but for us to be clear about what this is enjoining council staff to do would be worth discussing.

Ms Perron.

My understanding is that council staff will undertake further research, bring that back to the committee, and then if there's any requirements that's going to impact the budget, then that will come back via the committee to council.

I'm glad to hear that. Thank you.

Any further discussion? If not, I'll put the motion, which has been moved by Councillor Lyons-Buckett, seconded by Councillor Rasmussen. All those in favour say aye. Those against? Declare it carried.

The next item is item 273, Environmental Sustainability Advisory Committee, which has a recommendation on page 70. Someone like to move that? I'll move that, Mr Mayor. Councillor Rasmussen, seconded by Councillor Wheeler. Councillor Rasmussen, do you wish to speak? No

I'll leave that to some others, please.

Would some others like to speak?

Councillor Wheeler, yes.

Thanks, Mr Mayor. Again, there's a request from this committee to also include additional members, and it's the same story as the Waste Management Committee. The Western Sydney University student appointment is covered by the Constitution. That just requires us contacting the university to offer that position. Hence, requires a constitutional amendment.

Again, you can see the desire from another committee where the members are not the same as the Waste Committee for some sort of reuse repair facility. So that's certainly gaining traction, and I think the war on waste has really highlighted issues of waste and reuse in the community in terms of long-term sustainability. There was also a question that I think Council perhaps needs to pursue. Certainly, the committee has requested further information about the use of glyphosate in Council's activities as a weed killer, and I suspect that that's something we're going to hear more of following the Four Corners report into glyphosate use, in particularly larger-scale use on sporting fields and public parks.

If I could ask you a question. You mentioned other groups such as HEN joining, but that's not in this recommendation, is

It ? Sorry, it's just the— sorry, yes, I'm deeply confused yet again. It's only Western Sydney University who has requested a position on this committee, and apparently that's covered already by the Constitution. We just need to send out the feelers.

Thank you. Any further discussion? No. I will put the motion moved by Councillor Rasmussen, seconded by Councillor Wheeler. All those in favour say aye. Those against, declare it carried.

Next item is notice of motion one, Bells Line of Road. Councillor Lyons-Buckett.

I'll move the motion.

That, Mr Mayor. You wish to speak, Councillor Buckett?

Yes, just briefly. I think that we all know of the need. I just think that Council needs to take a position to identify the urgency of providing some sort of shared pathway along, particularly the sections between Richmond and North Richmond, where the only choice is to walk out on the road.

We know it's been identified by the RMS in their study as being a long-term project, but I think we have to do everything we can to bring this forward. We had the recent unfortunate hit-and-run incident on that road of a 14-year-old boy , and I've noticed an increase in people using it, particularly in the day when there's not much public transport. There's not much public transport any time there, but during the day I know people trying to get to appointments and so on, they're walking, and I mean you have to walk on the road. So I understand the complexity of it because the government are considering third river crossings and things like that, but we simply, I think, have to make a voice and say that we need something done about this situation because it's very unsafe.

Either give us a whole lot more public transport so people don't have to walk, because quite frankly it's cost prohibitive to get an Uber or a taxi for people who are doing that. And when you've only got the occasional bus, people are walking. I've seen kids who are obviously walking to work at McDonald's or, you know, people who just live in an area where not everyone has a car. Some people have about five or six cars, but some people don't have one, and also it's quicker to walk there sometimes. We did have a program going where we were doing dollar for dollar, trying to match the shared pathway all the way so that we would have this connectivity, but that fell over about 10 years ago, and...

And I would just like us to do whatever we can do. I mean, I'm open to if someone's got a better idea of how we go about it. There is some funding available that assists with providing shared pathways. I think we should be investigating that. And I think that we need to particularly, particularly try and urge somebody to do something about providing some safe area, particularly just before you get to the bridge where they've now put the merging lane and you really have no choice. These kids are walking out, not just kids, older people, whatever, actually walking on the road to get across there. So I just think it's an important thing, and it's something we all know needs to happen, and we need to push it along. Thanks.

Thank you, Councillor Lyons-Buckett. Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Mr Mayor. I agree completely with the Deputy Mayor here. We've got walking and cycling seem to be a particularly reasonable response to the traffic concerns on Bells Line of Road. It would be far, far easier and much quicker to walk or ride between North Richmond and Richmond. It's not very far. In fact, if you, last time I clocked it in the car, I can't remember what it was, but it's only a few kilometres. Cycling should be the preferred means of transport through this area. Not a death wish. It's mad that we're in this position. All we're doing is forcing more and more people into cars on a congested road. I had my husband suggest to my son that he could ride to meet him after work.

He was leaving youth group at North Richmond, and he said, Why don't you ride down to the library and I'll drive you home? And I hit the roof. I said, No way is he riding a pushbike through there in the dark. Not happening. Now that's ludicrous that I should be saying that to a 17-year-old, that that isn't safe. But the cold hard truth is that if it isn't safe enough for my child, it's not safe enough for anybody else's child either. And it's time that the state government put some funding into fixing this problem. It's no surprise that the traffic is bad there, and it's no surprise that people need a better means of getting through that site. What I would hope the Deputy Mayor would consider would be to adding an additional point so that we include Wilberforce Road in some of these activities as well.

It's again another area where people often walk or ride, in particular in this case to the caravan park, where people don't have a car as a means of transportation. That's a much longer ride. It's about six or seven kilometres from the caravan park into the centre of Windsor. And I've done it on a bike. I've walked it as well. Sometimes it's terrifying, and it's getting worse. So last time the RMS resurfaced Wilberforce Road, they breached their own guidelines, which are that a bike lane should be not left in a worse condition than it started. That certainly wasn't the way it ended up. They stopped the spread of the bitumen halfway into the bike lane and left a line right up the centre of the track.

It's very rough, it's very rutted, and we now have further assaults onto that bike lane with the work on Windsor Bridge, where again the RMS is not meeting its own guidelines from its New South Wales Bicycle Guidelines. Point 10.2 says that the provision of bicycle lanes at work sites must be made. That clearly isn't being done. The bicycle lane is obstructed with signage. When they're finished with the signage, they don't move it over out of the bike lane, they just drop it so that you can't see it until you're virtually on top of it in the dark. There's no lighting on that road. It's quite dark, particularly if you're on a bike with a pedal-operated light. There's gravel all over it, and you now can't access the footpath that takes you down and onto the bridge and across it to get into Windsor.

So people who make that ride every day to access services in Windsor, because those services don't exist in Wilberforce, now have to go head to head with heavy vehicle traffic and lots of cars on what is apparently a really unsafe bridge because it's so narrow. So clearly there's an issue here. We've also got a cafe that's opened on Wilberforce Road that's thrown gravel because it's in quite a low-lying spot. It gets very wet. They've thrown gravel all across the bike lane, so it's becoming really, really difficult for people to just get to and from town, and that isn't good enough. So if the Deputy Mayor would consider a point for that council write to the RMS, etc., to discuss the condition of the bicycle lane on Wilberforce Road.

And the provision of bicycle access through the worksite on Thompson Square.

I'm happy to include that.

Councillor Rasmussen, are you happy too? Thank you

We've got that, have we?

Any further speakers while we're waiting for that? Councillor Tree.

Thank you. I'm certainly not anti getting state funding to build such a thing, but I do think a couple of things. I think that cyclists, normal, you know, usual cyclists, not kids cyclists and not recreational cyclists, like weekend ones, prefer to use the road. I mean, if you drive around here anywhere, you'll be going over the double lines to get around cyclists every day of the week, and they'll very rarely be using these cycle paths. That's their, you know, that's their liberty to do that. But to suggest that it's going to be a mode of transport for people is, you know, other than for recreation or if you're lucky enough to live a year away from — year, goodness, that's what it would feel like, I think.

If you lived a couple of kilometres away from your work, or even if you lived ten or whatever, if you're a serious cyclist, I guess, but again, you're not riding on these cycleways. You know, to transport children and shopping, it's just not a practical mode of transportation in any way. I think it's a good idea for the children to have access to a safe pathway, and there's no way I'd let my children ride along the current roads at all, either . I think I actually travel to and from up and down that road every day of the week, but I've also, and I actually don't think it's that horrific, because I've travelled over a number of years up and down the M4 where it'd take me two hours to get back and forth each way quite regularly.

There are other areas where I'm currently working now where it'll take 40 minutes to get down Quakers Hill Parkway, which is, you know, half the distance that I have to travel at Bells Line of Road. So relatively speaking, whilst we all like to think that it's the worst traffic in the world, it's actually not even comparable to other areas. It's just that we prefer to think that we shouldn't have to put up with it. The road works will make a big difference down there at North Richmond, I think, in terms of the traffic. And also just a little tip that if you feel as though the traffic's not moving in the right direction, you can call the RMS and they can change the phasing of the lights, and that number is 131 700.

And you ring them up, and particularly during times when it's— I'll often ring them when I'm going down Bells Line of Road to say that the traffic's particularly, you know, busy going west, which is usually a Friday afternoon, but sometimes it can be Saturdays. And it's often due to the fact that the phasing, the light phasing, is not set at the highest possible rate, and you can just ask them to give them more green time in whatever direction you need to go. And that really does make a big difference, particularly if you're going up Yarramundi Lane, turning west onto Bells Line of Road, and you can see that all the traffic from Richmond, all the traffic from Inalls Lane and from Crowley's Lane, and that if you make the call, it makes a big difference.

So I recommend that you do that. But in relation to this, happy for the state to fund these sorts of things. I don't think we can do with— With too many of these types of things. But I just, I do think it's a little bit, I do chuckle a little bit when we think about it as being a mode of transport, you know, particularly in weather, in suits and ties and taking students' work to school. I just think it's a little bit funny. But I'm supportive of the idea of the shared pathway for anyone who wants to use it.

Thank you, Councillor Tree. Any further speakers?

Councillor Kotlash.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. I'll just talk about maybe the process. I'm speaking in support of the notice of motion. I just wanted to know how decoupled at points two and three, I mean, could we go and seek or investigate the funding for the New South Wales Government Active Transport Program

And compile a program of what we'd like to see and how we'd like to see it pan out, and then have a meeting and go armed with, you know, a proposal, I guess? I sort of glaze over a bit when I read, you know, request a meeting to discuss things. It just seems like go a bit harder

No? Mainly just because there's the proposed works to be done there. That's the point why we'd have to ask them first.

Okay, so there's no use doing that and then going with proposal under your wing. Okay. Oh well, we should have a go. Thank you.

So we're leaving it as it is? Okay. Any further speakers?

No? Councillor Reynolds.

Yeah, thanks, Mr Mayor. I would just like to— I'm speaking in favour of the motion. I think that a shared cycle pedestrian way between Richmond and North Richmond is needed. I really don't understand Councillor Tree's belief that cycling isn't a legitimate form of transport to and from work. You know, nearly 125,000 workers ride a bicycle to work every day. Something like 29,000 workers in Sydney ride a bicycle to work every day, let alone school children. She may not think the traffic's bad. That's, again, that's open to interpretation, based on your own point of view. But to say that footpaths and that aren't used because cyclists prefer to ride on the road, you know, training cyclists, yeah, they do prefer to ride on the road.

But if you look at the cycleways and the footpaths between Richmond and Windsor along Ham Common, you look at the cycleways between Windsor and Rouse Hill, they're always in use. And I think we should be encouraging people to take up cycling as a way to work when we have a massive obesity problem in Western Sydney, and the diabetes and obesity in Western Sydney is something like 20% higher than that in the rest of Sydney. So it's a win-win thing doing this. And again, I support the motion.

Thank you. Any further speakers? If not, I'll put the motion moved by Councillor Lyons-Buckett, seconded by Councillor Rasmussen. All those in favour say aye. Those against? Declare it carried.

Next item is notice of motion 2 on item 275. Councillor Reynolds is moving that. Do we have a seconder? Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Mr Mayor. I think this is basically a pretty simple one. It doesn't require any input from Council apart from the ability to put a sticker on a door.

You know, domestic violence is a massive problem, not just in the Hawkesbury, New South Wales, but the whole of the country. It was really brought home to me in recent months where an acquaintance of a friend lost his wife and their son to a murder-suicide, and everybody thought that they were a lovely family and didn't realise what was happening behind closed doors. And she became that desperate she could see no other way out. So if a simple little sticker on the back of a toilet door somewhere, someone sees it, calls the 24-hour number, I think it's really a no-brainer. Thank you.

Any further speakers?

If not, Councillor Wheeler, sorry, yes.

Thanks, Mr Mayor. I just want to say how pleased I am to see a male councillor taking up this initiative. I think very often the load for prevention or reporting of sexual assault, the dealing with sexual assault and domestic violence is a load frequently borne by women , who disproportionately don't cause the problem. We just keep having to clean up the mess. And until the whole of society steps up and works towards fixing this mess, it's never going to go away. A sticker on the back of the toilet door won't fix the mess, but hopefully it will send a message to some women and some men that there is support available to them if they need it. Sometimes it's very difficult to get to a place where you can seek support or you feel comfortable enough to even make a phone call.

Fortunately , public toilets, public though they are, are usually fairly private places. It's a place where you are unlikely to find yourself and the perpetrator in the same place. With the advent of mobile phones, they can provide a place for a woman or the victim of whatever gender to make a private call and seek some help. And that may have to happen a number of times before they go through with it. But just to speak to someone at the other end of the phone is an enormous start, and just to find that there are resources available to you is an enormous start. In every toilet, this will be a slow drip , and hopefully it will make a difference. What I am really concerned about here is that funding to this 24/7 Rape Crisis Centre is secure.

Last year it was in question. This year that seems to be sorted out. But the biggest issue always with crisis centres is that funding. is never enough, and that there just aren't sufficient people to talk to and places to go when victims are in the headspace or the physical space to seek help. So I applaud this notice of motion. I hope that other levels of government are paying attention to programs like this, and they understand that funding these services adequately is one of the biggest ways to make a difference. The other way, of course, to make a difference is to speak to the women in your life and tell them not to tolerate this behaviour, and the most likely perpetrators, which unfortunately are frequently men, and tell them that they are not entitled to enact this behaviour either.

Any further speakers?

Councillor Reynolds, did you require a right of reply?

No. I'd just like to make the comment that the Rape and Domestic Violence Services Australia is funded by the New South Wales Government's New South Wales Health, and also the Australian Government's Department of Social Services, and I think that that's commendable to both governments. And I'd also like to point out that, just on the white ribbon site, that the violence against women through domestic violence is estimated to cost the Australian economy $22 billion a year.

So I think that something as simple as a little sticker that we don't have to pay for, and we just get our staff or whoever to put it on the back, it's just too simple. Thank you.

Thank you. I'll put the motion. All those in favour say aye. Those against? Declare it carried. Before we move.

Move on. It's come to my attention that there is a confidential item in the block that is to be moved en bloc, item 279, moved by Councillor Rasmussen, seconded Councillor Conolly. All those in favour? Carried. Do we have any questions on questions? There's only one question, that was from Councillor Garrow. No. Any questions for the next meeting? Councillor Ross.

I referred to an earlier question I posed to staff in regard to the state of

Wallace Road vineyard, I'd gather. I was not aware at the time that that formed part of the flood evacuation route. In view of the fact that it does form part of a flood evacuation route, could I suggest to Council staff that possibly they inquire as to whether the RMS would be willing to bear

Some of the cost or all of the cost, in fact, with any remediation works to that road? That's the first question. The second question came up from a report I've received in regard to the North Richmond Shopping Centre, sited up towards the hotel on the river. In the general region of the news, outside of the news agency there, where, as I understand it, the car park area

Embodies an inspection cover of some sort. I gather it could be anything up to 100 mil in diameter, but it has not got an inspection cover hole and cover plate, and that has been absent for an extended period. And I believe it would form a hazard for pedestrians or disabled people. And I'd ask staff to please visit that area in that regard, and they might also look at the general quality of the pavement of the car park in that area, which seems to be subject to prodigious patching. Thank you.

Thank you. Councillor Rasmussen. Councillor Garrow. Councillor Reynolds. Councillor Wheeler. Councillor Mary Lyons-Buckett. Councillor Kotlash.

I'm sorry to do this one, but I keep forgetting to do it on the council request app we've got. But the toilet in the women's toilet keeps sticking and flushing . If we could get that fixed, it'd be good. I'm sorry, I keep forgetting to note it when I'm out of here.

Councillor Zamprogno. Councillor Conolly. Councillor Tree. Councillor Richards . Thank you very much. We move into confidential.

Thank you. Councillor Rasmussen, Councillor Conolly, all those in favour say aye. Carried

Mr. Wern's going to read out the results of the confidential business paper. Through

You, Mr Mayor, that in relation to in-closed session, Council resolve in relation to item 278, moved by Councillor Richards, seconded by Councillor Rasmussen, that one, Council undertake compulsory acquisition under the Local Government Act 1993 of an area of land shown in Attachment 1 to the report in the order of 9.05 hectares within part of 130 Hall Street, Pitt Town, being Lot 2 in DP 76375 for the purposes of creating stormwater infrastructure and the associated access. Number two, Council approve the making of the application to the Minister for Local Government for the issue of a proposed acquisition notice under the Land Acquisition (Just Terms Compensation) Act 1991 with respect to the acquisition of the land.

Number three, Council approve the making of an application to the Governor for the publication of an acquisition notice in the New South Wales Government Gazette under the Land Acquisition (Just Terms Compensation) Act 1991 with respect to the acquisition of the land. Council bear all costs associated with the process of acquiring the land. Point number five, authority be given for any documentation in association with this matter to be executed under the seal of Council. Point number six, Council grant delegation to the General Manager to execute any documents on behalf of Council associated with the compulsory acquisition process which do not require the seal to be affixed. Point number seven, details of Council's resolution be conveyed to the affected land owners together with the advice that Council is not and will not be bound by the terms of its resolution until such time as appropriate documentation to put such resolution into effect has been executed.

Okay. Point number eight. A report be provided that includes a table of reference on the infrastructure works that have been delivered at each particular stage of the Pitt Town redevelopment and what works are yet to be delivered, and that this report include a community update.

Okay .

In relation to item 279, Council resolved on the motion of Councillor Rasmusson, seconded by Councillor Conolly, that one, Council agree to enter into a lease with the Hills Family Trust trading as Pitt Town Pizza Proprietary Limited for the property known as Shop 8, Wilberforce Shopping Centre, as outlined in the report. Number two, authority be given for the lease and any other relevant documentation in association with this matter to be executed under the seal of Council. Point number three, details of Council's resolution be conveyed to the proposed lessee together with the advice that Council is not and will not be bound by the terms of its resolution until such time as appropriate legal documentation to put such a resolution into effect has been agreed to and executed by all parties.

Thank you, Mr. Wearn. Is there any further business? If not, I'll close the meeting at 9.55. Thank you.