31 March 2020 - Ordinary

I'll declare the meeting open and welcome to the ordinary meeting of Hawkesbury Council for Tuesday the 31st of March 2020. I'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of this land and pay respect to Elders both past and present. I'll now hand over to the General Manager for some procedural matters.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. Before we start, if I could just ask councillors to put their devices on mute unless they're speaking. It will assist in the overall audio quality of the proceedings. So if you could all put your devices on mute, that would be of some assistance. Members of the public attending the meeting are advised in the event of an emergency you will be asked to proceed in an orderly manner to the nearest exit following the guidance of our wardens. I'd also like to advise members of the public that in accordance with Clause 5.18 of the Code of Meeting Practice, meetings of the Council are recorded. In the terms of the Privacy and Personal Information Protection Act, this may involve the recording of personal information provided at the time of the meeting.

The recordings are made to assist staff in compiling the minutes of the meeting and to enable the podcasting of Council meetings. The provision of any information that is recorded is voluntary. If any person does not wish to be recorded, they should not address or request to address the meeting. The recordings may be made available to other persons where such access is in accordance with the relevant regulations, and the recordings are stored on Council's record management system.

Finally, it is also requested if any person has a mobile phone they either turn it off or turn it to silent. Thank you, Mr Mayor.

Thank you, Mr General Manager. Do we have any apologies, please? Any apologies, please?

Councillor Tree.

Councillor Tree, that's the only apology. Can someone like to move we accept the apologies? Moved Councillor Conolly, seconded Councillor Sam Brogno. All those in favour say aye. Declare it carried.

Councillor Garrow, you've got a declaration? 068

Yes, that's correct. Okay. Any other declarations of interest? No, any in the chamber? Thank you.

Leave this on. Sorry, just getting some technical help. Confirmation of minutes. Would someone like to confirm the minutes? Councillor Conolly. Yes. Seconded, Councillor Rasmussen.

Any discussion about the minutes? It's been moved and seconded. All those in favour say aye. Declare it carried.

There are no mayoral minutes, so we go to items on block, of which there are two. They are items 56 and 62. Moved by Deputy Mayor, seconded by Councillor Rasmussen. All those in favour say aye. Declare it carried.

Request that we try and be as flexible as possible because this is our first time at this and we need to make sure that we can all be heard and seen. So if you think I've ignored you, please just speak up and say so. I'm not trying to ignore anyone, but I've got a group behind me and a group in front of me. It makes it a bit difficult. Okay All right. So the first item then is item 53. Move the recommendation, Mr Mayor. Moved by Councillor Conolly. Do we have a seconder for that? Seconded, Councillor Rasmussen. Councillor Conolly, do you wish to speak? Not at this time, no. Any discussion?

Sorry, what I forgot, Mr Conolly was going to remind me is the staff were going to introduce this item before we spoke about it. So, Mr Conolly, would you like to introduce the item, please?

Mr Mayor, this is the second report to Council in relation to this matter. There was a previous report in February. This report outlines the proposed updated bushfire recovery initiatives and expenditure of the $1.3 million Commonwealth Government grant. It's been increased from $1 million to $1.3 million across the areas of infrastructure, waste, environment and planning, health and wellbeing, business, tourism and industry, and the disaster recovery officer. And these headings categories are in line with the State Government's Regional Recovery Committee areas of activity. The total value of the recovery renewal program at this point is now approximately $2.035 million. comprising the 1.3 million from the Commonwealth Government and a further $735,000 from other sources. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Thank you, Mr. Conroy. So it's been moved by Councillor Conolly and seconded by Councillor Rasmussen. Anyone wish to speak on the matter? Councillor

Ross. Question, if I may. Yep. I

Notice that page 14 of the business paper, the last item, proposed expenditure, Disaster Recovery Officer. Am I to take it that that is a change in the organisational structure?

Mr. Conroy? Mr. Mayor, that's a position that we've established to deliver the disaster recovery assistance over the next 12 months. It's a temporary position, and we're using the Commonwealth Government funding to cover the cost of that position. Thank you

Any further questions? Mr

Mayor, I don't believe that answers the question. I seek a direct answer, please.

Mr. Conroy ? It's a temporary position, as I said. It's not a permanent position, and it's there for the recovery over the next 12 months.

Would you like to rephrase the question, perhaps, to say why you don't think the answer is? Well

I don't think the response is compatible with the organisational structure of which the Council has already endorsed. And that I believe that at least a modification to the current recommendation and any resolution would require Council to approve an alteration in the organisational structure to cover the appointment here

Suggested.

Mr Conroy, do you care to comment on that

Mr Mayor, Council adopted its organisational structure of three directors back in August 2017. There's no change to that proposed. This is the position that was previously endorsed by Council in February, and that's the situation that remains. It's a temporary position. There's 12 months funding there, and that's the limit of the role.

Thank you.

You have another question, Councillor?

Yes, I would be obliged. It's probably a statement. I don't believe that is correct. I believe the organisational structure is that which was supplied in diagrammatic form, and not just purely the, if you like, the senior positions. It percolates all the way through the organisation as diagrammatically provided councillors in the annual report, I think is the most recent publication where that is shown. And this position is not

Contained within that structure, and I therefore believe that despite whatever has happened in February, that I draw your attention to this and request— Please, if something can be done about it

Thank you. Deputy Mayor, you wish to speak?

Yes, thank you, Mr Mayor. I just had a number of questions. Do we have an actual figure of how much of the funding has already been spent?

Mr Conroy ? Not off the top of my head, no. Okay,

Thank you. The other question was regarding the cleanups. For the people that aren't eligible for Lang and O'Rourke's cleanup, the ones that weren't assessed through the process of the contract to have that done,

Will we be helping them in any way? Mr Mayor, Lang O'Rourke have at this stage completed, I think, four properties in total. There's a further, I think, six underway or thereabouts, and a further five planned for the next week to two-week period. And on top of that, there are further inspections proposed by Lang O'Rourke, I think in the order of 14. We've also then inspected 40-odd properties, and we've already completed some cleanup works on approximately 10 of those properties. When we know which properties Lang O'Rourke are going to deal with out of that remaining 14 inspections, we will then move to complete those works as soon as possible. So we certainly have got works underway. They're primarily to do with tree removals at this stage, and they relate to the operational area of the property.

So Lang O'Rourke are primarily concerned with the residences, the associated— Outbuildings like a laundry or something like that, a garage, and access to that residence. We're taking a wider view and looking at the operational areas that are required for, say, some farming activities and access to farm sheds and things like that on those properties. So we've got a bit of a larger scope that we believe will augment the Lango Rorke actions. Do

You believe that will cover basically everyone who was affected in some way, or

Will there be some other people who aren't assisted in any way ? We believe there will still be issues that need to be addressed, and we're certainly raising those with the Regional Recovery Committee. We need to be sure that all relevant issues, such as asbestos and contamination, are dealt with. And sometimes they aren't associated with a specific dwelling, but they certainly need to be looked at. So we're raising those issues, as we are other matters such as fencing and things like that, with the Regional Recovery Committee to make sure that as many of the fire-related damage matters are dealt with as possible

Mr Mayor, we've got a session planned with councillors to discuss the recent bushfires and the learnings from them. That would be something that would certainly come up as part of that. It's also been a matter that has been covered in an RFS review, and we will also look at it as part of our work going forward, particularly in relation to health and wellbeing. We've got a particular issue at the moment where we're in recovery, but we're being encouraged to socially distance, and that's really challenging for some of the recovery issues. And if we can use any opportunities to assist that recovery, we will do that. I

Can imagine how challenging it is. It would be a nightmare. But just another thing that seemed that was on there on the original layout and wasn't there on the second one, and I only noticed that when I read back through it, was investigating the provision of some water sources in the more remote areas, maybe putting in a bore or a tank. Does

That remain a commitment to be done at this point? Mr Mayor, there's $20,000 set aside for exploring water infrastructure, tanks at fire sheds, bores, water resilience and standpipes.

Thank you, and I just had one more question, sorry. Can we please have an update on what, if anything, has been achieved through follow-up interactions with the BizRebuild group, especially with regard to rebuilding and our local trade people across the

Trade during the fires?

The BizRebuild and tools of trade for

Mr Mayor, that is being followed up. Staff are following those opportunities up with that organisation.

Thank you. That's all. Thank you. Councillor Wheeler, you had your hand up.

Can't hear you, sorry . You're on mute, I think, Councillor Wheeler. Thank you. As

Asked, my question is up in particular relating

To asbestos. Does the general manager have any information about how many properties we've got? It's inaudible, Mr Mayor.

Can you hang on a second, please, Councillor Wheeler. I think I'm the only one who can hear you

Councillor Wheeler, would

You like to try again

Thanks, Mr Mayor. Can we have an indication from the general manager if we know whether there's how many properties we've got left still with asbestos that require cleaning , and what our funding wish list is outside of this document? What's our shortfall in funding? Thanks.

Mr Conolly. Mr Mayor, we're still waiting on information from Infrastructure NSW and from Lango Rook in relation to some of those issues to do with contamination. At the moment, they've been focused on just residential buildings. But as I outlined earlier, there are a number of issues that we're taking up with the Regional Recovery Committee, and contamination, asbestos, gas tanks. There's a whole range of potential issues that aren't necessarily addressed by the Lang O'Rourke work, and we're trying to identify how those matters are going to be dealt with, and we can advise Council of the outcome of those discussions as they progress. In relation to the second point, can you just remind me what it was again?

The estimated funding shortfall, so the things that we still need to do that we can't fund under this round.

So , at the moment, the Agriculture and Animal Advisory Group is still meeting, and we're expecting that there'll be some decision made in relation to fencing as part of the deliberations of that group. So we're expecting them to make some announcements on that front. We're also continuing to monitor the release of grants and other funding opportunities. They're certainly not as frequent as they were early on, but there still are regular announcements. There was one a couple of weekends ago in relation to the orchards at Bilpin and Batlow, and so these matters continue to come up, and we'll continue to pursue funding and grant opportunities in relation to those as they're released. We certainly— I've got a lot of work to do in the recovery, particularly in the health and wellbeing sector.

So we're looking for any opportunities that we can to pursue funding to assist people for a much longer period than, you know, the six to 12 months perhaps that it takes to deal with some of the building issues. The community and social issues will be a much longer program, and so we're looking for some longer-term funding. There is a grant program in the order of $4 million that we are eligible for, and we're looking at working with Lithgow and Blue Mountains in terms of how we use some of those funds for long-term recovery as well. So it's a work in progress, and we'll continue to monitor. And if we can find some money, we will use it.

Councillor Wheeler, any more questions? Councillor Kotlash, you're on mute. You have to turn your mute off. Thank you

I don't wanted to follow up on something that Deputy Mayor said about communications, and it was about the local radio stations having some role in getting information out in times of emergency. My understanding was that the ABC, the local ABC radio stations , really took carriage of that, and I just wanted to know what sort of —I wasn't aware that we had any dialogue with local radio stations, and I just wanted to have some clarification of that.

Mr Conroy. Mrs Perrin

Somebody who's answering this . Mr Conroy. Can I

Say something, Mr Mayor?

Sure can

I understand that, Councillor Clatworthy, the ABC is the official broadcaster, and Barry does a very good job. I think where this arose from was that particularly in floods in the past, people were very reliant on local radio because back then the ABC didn't do it as often, I believe, and a lot of people just go immediately to local radio. I think just that, even if it was just updating road closures and things like that that were official information. I mean, it's just one thing of many things about how to get the information out, and we want people to go to a single source, of course. But there are actually people in the community who won't listen to the ABC, which is a sad thing, but that is a true fact. That's my explanation. That's why I raised it.

Mr Conroy, did you have

Further

The landscapes change quite significantly in the last 10 years or so in relation to the dissemination of information in the community. And whilst it has consolidated into one or two locations, they're not as reliable as they could be. We've certainly experienced some issues with the currency of information on some government websites, particularly in relation to roads and things like that, and that became really apparent during the flooding as well. So as part of the recovery, we're certainly making those points known to relevant agencies and the need to get a more reliable and more finely tuned arrangement so that local residents can get a very clear picture of the situation in their particular area.

When you look at the Gospers Mountain fire, it got to such a size that it became very difficult to get an accurate and Timely rundown of the fire without reading quite a lot of information. So that's again something that the RFS are aware of. People are working on these things, and community radio, I'm sure, will be part of the solution going forward.

Councillor Kotlash, I've had talks with the four local radio operators, and they're all very keen to get a licence. But it's the federal government and ACMA that just don't seem to be making a decision, and they're very keen for one of the groups to get a full-time licence. And it's been dragging on for about two or three years now. And I agree that means that our community has not got that resource available to it during times of crisis. So I will continue to talk to them, and I will talk to our local federal member again and suggest that she pushes it ahead a bit as much as she can. Any further speakers? Have I missed anyone? Councillor Deputy Mayor, your little blue hand is on. Are you wanting to speak again or no ?

No, I'm sorry, I'll remove my little hand.

Okay. Have I missed anybody? No .

Councillor Kotlash, your little blue hand is on. You're on mute as well.

Do you wish to speak, Councillor Kotlash? Can

You hear me? I do, sorry. I was just having a few issues. I'm

Sorry , but I didn't hear that last—I heard you, Mr Mayor, but I didn't hear the last speaker, whoever that was. It's so faint I didn't get it, and I just wanted to let you know that I— I

Don't think there was a last speaker. I think I was it. I think we're just getting rid of our little blue hands from the screen, that's all.

No, no, the person that was talking before, I couldn't hear any of what they were saying.

Okay.

Just thought I'd let you know. All right,

Thank you. I'll

Put down my little blue hand.

Okay. Smurf hands, yes. Any further speakers? If not, Councillor Conolly, right of reply ? Not required. Not required. In that case, I'll put the motion to all those at home and here. Can you just put up your hand if you are in favour of this motion, please? In favour is Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Cottleash, Councillor Garrow, Councillor Reynolds, Councillor Rasmussen—sorry, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Richards, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Samprogno. Put up your hand if you're against. Councillor Ross is against. Councillor Rasmussen, and I didn't record your vote.

Yeah, I put my hand

Up and it's still saying I'll put my— No, not that, I mean your real—put your real hand up. My real hand. Your

Real hand, yeah, okay.

So you're in favour. Okay. Right. So Councillor Rasmussen is also in favour. I declare it carried. Thank you very much.

Very much. Moved to item 54.

Someone like to move anything on this? Deputy Mayor, you?

Yes, I'll move it, Mr Mayor.

Moved by Deputy. Seconded by Councillor Brassmussen. Deputy Mayor, you wish to speak?

Yes, just briefly. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I think that obviously we need this sort of policy. I did just have a couple of questions about it as well. I thought before, when we had discussed this matter, that we were going to include somewhere — I'm not sure that it can go in the policy — but we were going to include somewhere an explanation about how people who have their Envirocycle or similar system and have to have regular inspections by the contractor who deals with the Envirocycle, that we were going to explain that this is an additional and a statutory thing, I believe, that we have to do as well, or an additional inspection, because there seems to be some confusion about that in the community.

So I'm not sure. I know we did discuss it, and I don't know what was decided of where to put that, whether it could be included somehow attached to this policy, or whether we do that as a general education to people in the community that it's an additional inspection that is based on the risk factors that we have that are shown in the policies.

Mrs Perrin wants to answer that?

Yes, so hopefully everyone can hear me okay. Yes, so in terms of the policy, it wasn't required to put it in the policy.

Can you all hear her? No, they can't hear you, sorry.

Can you hear me now?

Can you hear her now?

No

No.

Okay, I'll yell.

Very faintly we can hear you.

Okay, it wasn't necessary to put that information in the policy. What we've done is updated the information sheet on our website that we'll be educating people around what they have to do and therefore where this policy sits in relation to what they're required to do in terms of their system.

I think they can't hear you.

Thank you. I couldn't really hear that, but I think the gist of it was that there's something on the website that does explain that. So I think as long as we've got something to point to that we can show people that there is a need for both inspections because it is confusing

Is that what the outcome of this . ..?

I think

That's correct. Yes,

That's correct. Thank you very much. The other thing was with regard to the dual occupancy section. Does that also relate to farm buildings or workers' cottages that people live in as well as dual occupancy?

Mrs. Perrin

It would apply to any properties that have more than one, whether it's a dual occ or a farm, whatever. If there's more than one septic system then we'll be inspecting it, yes.

And just one last question, which I think would have to be taken on notice, but it's just to raise. I'm just interested in how we've gone along doing this. Have all properties under an acre, under 4,000 square metres, that have got on-site disposal, have most of those been transitioned to pumped out or something like that?

Mrs. Perrin . You can take it on notice, I think.

Yes, that's correct

Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Wheeler, you've got your little blue hand on.

I do, thanks, Mr Mayor. I couldn't quite hear Ms Carina either. But I think it would be helpful if we put that information about it being a statutory requirement, not just a whim or revenue-raising option of Council's, in with the documentation that is sent to the sight owner. I think we have to make it really clear that we're not in control of this, we're not making a profit off it. This isn't something that we're doing just because we want to have our hands in people's pockets. We have to do this. It's the law, and it's the law in order to keep people and that safe. And I think that that needs to go out with the documentation that goes to the residents

It is

Included currently. Thank you, Councillor. It is included in

She may even move microphones, but you still can't hear you, apparently.

It is included in the education— or in the information that we've put on the website.

Can't hear that.

No. No. Can they hear you? You

Can hear me though, can't you?

Yeah, I can. It is included.

Well, the answer is it is included.

Okay .

We might need to work out what's happening with Mrs Perrin. Maybe she's lost the ability to be heard.

Any further speakers? Councillor Ross. Question.

I notice that the scope of this policy is domestic and commercial. I question why institutions such as schools and— Also, clubs, which may be incorporated non-profit organisations, have not been incorporated within

This policy. Councillor Ross, they can't hear you. Mr

Mayor, can I ask you to turn your mic off and see if that improves things?

Thank you.

The policy indicates that the applicability of the scope is that the policy applies to domestic, in the first instance, and secondly commercial on-site sewage management facilities. However, as I believe was raised prior to this policy going out on exhibition, the question was sought, or an answer was sought as to why public institutions, for instance, such as schools or whatever, or possibly even retirement homes, etc., or non-profit organisations such as clubs that would be affected by the policy have not been incorporated within the scope. Thank you.

Mrs Perren, do you have an answer to that?

I'll give you a more fuller answer on take notice, but essentially they weren't included in the policy, but there is a reason behind that, which I'll get back to you on.

Yes. Do I understand from that reply, Mr Mayor, that all councillors will be similarly involved, advised?

Yes, I'll advise all councillors.

Further speakers, please. Nobody?

Nope. Okay, then, Deputy Mayor, do you want to exercise your right of reply?

In that case, I'll put the motion. If you're in favour of the motion, please raise your real hand. Thank you. In favour is Councillor Richards, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Reynolds, Councillor Rasmussen, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Garrow, Councillor Wheeler and Councillor Kotlash. All those against? Councillor Ross. Absent is Councillor Tree. Declare it carried.

Hawkesbury Voting Events, Governor Philip Park exclusive use. Does anyone wish to— Councillor Conolly wants to move the recommendation. Councillor Garrow, are you seconding that? I think Councillor Garrow is seconding it. Is that right? Yes, second. Okay, Councillor Conolly, do you wish to speak on that? No. Does anyone wish to speak on that? Councillor Wheeler, go ahead.

Now we can't hear you, Councillor Wheeler. Sorry. That's why my microphone was on, because it's supposed to pick you up. Try again now.

Do you want me to start again?

Yes, please.

There's a mistake in the, I think there's a mistake in the recommendation. It calls for exclusive use on the 15th and 16th of January, which is a Friday and Saturday, and I think it's intended that it be the 16th and 17th of January, which is the Saturday and Sunday, as mentioned in the report. So that will need to be changed before we pass the recommendation. I'm also a bit concerned about when we intend to close for Australia Day. If we still intend to hold an event in Governor Philip Park, what we'll be looking at is potentially closing for two weekends in a row, closing Governor Philip Park to the public in the school holidays in summer. And I don't find that acceptable, that the public are excused from our only waterfront park in the heat of summer.

One is a council event, the other is a closed event. So I'd like to put more information about whether we intend to close the park for the lead-up to Australia Day as well, like we did this year.

So firstly, Councillor Conolly, are you happy to change those dates? I think we should, yeah. Councillors happy, we'll make that change. Your second question about closing the park, were you asking for a further report or what were you asking for, Councillor Whelan?

I'd just like some more information. I think I'm happy to pass it with other dates. I'm concerned about that date and closing what is one of our key parks and our only wet play area in the heat of summer to the public for an exclusive event. And then particularly if we're then closing the park again to get ready for Australia Day.

Mr Conroy, we have Mr Organ. Thank you.

Through you, Mr Mayor, we hadn't contemplated any changes to that. However— I

Can't hear you, sorry.

Looks like we only have one microphone that works.

Through you, Mr Mayor, it's something we'd need to look at in terms of if there's council's concern that there are two weekends or a significant period. What I would add is that we do endeavour during the exclusive use events to enable the playground area to be still open to the public. So we work with the organisers to provide additional fencing if that's required and leave that area open. However, the broader area of the park is restricted during those events. So it's a matter, I guess, for Council to determine whether they wish to not grant approval for that date and seek alternative dates.

Thank you, Mr. Organ. Councillor Wheeler, does that answer your question?

More or less. I'm still not entirely satisfied that that works for members of the community. There's quite large events with lots of people. There's usually quite a lot of alcohol consumed. It's not really consistent with, I wouldn't take my kids to the park while that event was on. So effectively it's monopolised. I think Council can control the space better, and so I can probably live with it. I'm not. I do present that these events close our major water play park to the rest of the community. I think that's unreasonable, particularly in the heat of summer.

Thank you. Councillor Kotlash, you've got your little blue hand on.

Thank you. I'm sorry, I just couldn't quite hear Mr. Organ's answer to that question. I agree with Councillor Wheeler that I also don't find that acceptable that our parks are closed off. Am I right in saying that Mr. Organ said that the water play area will not be closed off? I'm sorry, I just couldn't

Hear what he was

Saying. Mr. Organ, you want to have another go?

That was correct. We actually work with the organisers of each of these events now to secure their event and still enable the playground to be in use. Council could make that an explicit condition if that was the issue.

I think they still couldn't hear you. Councillor Kotlash can't hear you at least. What about the other councillors, could you hear that? No. And

You've got a big strong voice. Okay, Bob.

We'll try again. As said, we actually work with the various organisers of these events to try and secure their site separate from the play area, and we've actually fenced that off on a number of occasions this year. So we could actually make that a condition if that was the area that was of concern.

Did you hear that one? Yes,

Thank you. I heard that, and I guess, I guess we have to ... the sentiment is the same. That's

And . ..

Yeah. Anyway, that's a compromise, I guess. Thank you.

Any further speakers? Councillor Zamprogno.

I note that the resolution permits the general manager has authority to negotiate on alternative dates, considering that things are in a state of flux. I'm wondering what threshold would apply that things are so delayed or rearranged as that it would require this to be further reported back to council. How much latitude does the general manager get before it ceases to resemble this to such a degree that we would need to look at it again in chamber?

Mr. Orgun, Mr. Conroy

Generally, that clause has been put in to give effect if there's wet weather, and it's generally within a reasonable period after that, so probably within a month or so. But it depends on clashes and so on. If the traffic planning expired because of other clashes, then we would bring that back to Council.

Any further speakers here or there? No. Councillor Conolly, you wished to have right of reply? If not, I'll put the motion. All those in favour, please raise your hand. In favour are Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Richards, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Rasmussen, Councillor Reynolds, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Garrow, Councillor Wheeler, and Councillor Kotlash. All those against? Councillor Ross. Absent is Councillor Tree. Declare it carried. Thank you. Item.

We go to item 57, which is about land revaluation, and the staff are going to provide us with an introduction on this topic.

Thanks, Mr Mayor. This report provides an overview of the outcome of the Valuer-General's land revaluations of properties within the Hawkesbury City Council local government area, which were undertaken in late 2019. The Valuer-General's valuations will be forwarded to landowners in May 2020. At this stage, these land values will be used to levy the 2021 rates . However, these valuations may change should a full revaluation of the area be undertaken due to the effect of the recent bushfires and drought. The change in land values does not result in any increase in rates income. It only redistributes the way rates are levied across individual properties throughout the local government area.

Thank you, Mr Mifsud. The recommendation is that this be received and noted. Does anyone wish to move that or anything else?

No one wants to move anything. I'll move that it be received and noted. Councillor Connolly's moved the recommendation. I'll second it. Seconded Councillor Rasmussen. Councillor Conolly, you wish to speak?

Only to say, Mr Mayor, that I contemplated upon receiving this whether it would be wise to— Sorry, I'm probably too far from the microphone.

They were yelling

That's why. Is this better? Can you hear me now?

Okay. What should I do? Come up there?

Does that work? Can you hear me now?

Can you hear? Can you hear Councillor Conolly now? No.

Okay.

Yell something out, please, Councillor Conolly.

If I speak loudly, can you hear me now? Okay. I'm sitting in the chamber screaming, but I was just

I contemplated moving a change to the rating system to try and set the yield back to the way it had been set previously to keep the notional yield per category the same. However, having considered the data, I think the change would not be huge, and to change the system again, even in a minor way to keep the yield the same, would probably create more uncertainty and problems, so I'd be inclined to leave it the way it is.

Thank you. Any further speakers?

No blue hands. Councillor Zamprogno, yes.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. If I speak up, nobody's ever accused me of having a quiet voice, so I'll do my best for the benefit of my colleagues. I know that the report before us merely asks us to receive and note the data, but I can't let the opportunity pass without observing that in being presented with this data, what we see are further sharp changes to land valuation and a consequent adjustment to— Rates, within some cases are not favourable, and I know that some of my colleagues expressed anxiety on that count. And I need to point out on the public record that the reason that these changes in land value are making such a sharp adjustment to people's rates is because this Council chose to turn up the knob as far as it would go, as far as the ad valorem component, and diminished the influence of the base rate, which means that there are many property owners who are still paying a disproportionate share of the rating burden, and it would appear that they will have no relief until this Council or the next Council changes the formula again.

Thank you, Councillor Zamprogno. My recollection is we didn't turn the knob up all the way; we only turned it halfway, balanced it in the middle, but that's my recollection. Any other speakers, please?

Mr Mayor, that's mine too.

Councillor Rasmussen believes that to be correct. Any other speakers?

No, no blue hands out there, nobody here. Nope. Okay, Councillor Conolly, right of reply. If not, I'll move that motion. All those in favour, please raise your hand in favour: Councillor Ross, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Richards, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Kotlash, Councillor Garrow, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Reynolds, and Councillor Rasmussen. Absent is Councillor Tree. Declare it carried.

We move to item number 58, reports of committees, Environmental Sustainability Advisory Committee. Would someone like to move that?

I'll move that

Councillor Rasmussen, do we have a seconder? Councillor Conolly. Councillor Rasmussen, you wish to speak?

No, I don't, Mr Mayor. Thank you.

Does anyone wish to speak? No little blue hands. Councillor Wheeler, yes, your hand is showing.

Thank you. Any further speakers? Here ? Home? No. Councillor Rasmussen, are you happy to make that change to the minutes

I am indeed, Mr Mayor. Thank you.

Okay. So, do you want right of reply, Councillor Rasmussen? No

Not required, Mr Mayor. Thank you very much.

Okay. In that case, we will move this. All those in favour, please raise your hand. In favour is Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Cottlehouse, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Garo, Councillor Rasmussen, and Councillor Reynolds, Councillor Richards, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Ross. Absent is Councillor Tree. Declare it carried. Item 15.

Carried. Item 59 is the Human Services Advisory Committee. Does anyone wish to move that?

I move that, Mr Mayor. Moved

Councillor Conolly, seconded by Councillor Rasmussen. Councillor Conolly, do you wish to speak? Does anyone wish to speak on this matter? Deputy Mayor.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. Just with regard to the tiny homes, it was a wonderful opportunity, and I thank for the invitation to attend that meeting and see the tiny home, which was quite amazing at the Secret Garden . I know it was raised during that meeting about the value of the earth building that Mr Trappell is involved in, and with regard to the tiny homes, but also his earth building solutions. I know there was a little bit of discussion around the value of that in fire-affected areas, and I note in the report that it did suggest that that be considered by the Council maybe in the housing strategy. I'm just wondering, given that we've got a number of people who are rebuilding from fire, and particularly in their outbuildings and things, if there had been any effort to have the planning department or even the Bushfire Recovery Officer or anyone investigate that any further, I'd just be interested to know, because I do think it's something of extreme value.

Thank you. Mrs Perrin gave me a short verbal report this afternoon on this matter. I don't know whether she can add anything to your question, and whether she can be heard is the other problem. Here she comes.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. In relation to the question around the bushfire recovery, so at the moment, from the discussions that we've had with people, some people are definitely looking at a whole range of materials in order to ensure that their homes or their new homes are bushfire resistant, and they are looking at a range of materials. And it's certainly part of the conversation that planning officers are having with people. But again, it's up to them in terms of what they're willing to pay and investigate.

Thank you. Are you happy with that answer, Deputy Mayor? Yes,

Thank you. I'm really happy to hear that. That's wonderful, thank you. The other question was just regarding the tiny homes group that was set up. I know they had had one meeting, because I ran into some of them after I'd just had it. But is that still progressing? Because I think that's a really wonderful initiative, and I just wanted to say that I just wanted to add that I really support the community-led approach, given the limited council resources that we have in the committees at the moment. And I think that having community members get together and pool ideas surrounding that, and then getting back with the people from Wentworth Housing and so on, is a really good and productive idea

Mrs Perrin

So yes, there are three community members that have been meeting weekly to work through the various ideas and options, and when they're ready they will come back to the Human Services Advisory Committee to put forward their ideas for consideration by the committee and then subsequently by council.

Thank you. Any further speakers or questions? Councillor Wheeler, your little blue hand is on. Are you, is that from last time?

You don't wish to speak. Thank you. Anybody in here wish to speak? No other blue hands? No. I endorse what the Deputy Mayor said. I think this committee has played quite a leadership role in a lot of the issues that it deals with, and this community group, I think, is a wonderful initiative, and they're already starting to deliver, and I think it's fantastic. If there's no further speakers, Councillor Conolly, you move this. Did you want right of reply? Not necessary. I'll move the motion. If you're in favour of this, please raise your hand. In favour is Councillor Ross, Councillor Samprogno, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Richards, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Kotlash, Councillor Garrow, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Rasmussen, and Councillor Reynolds. Absent is Councillor Tree. Declare it carried.

Mr

Mayor. Second by Councillor Rasmussen. Deputy Mayor, do you wish to speak?

I do, thank you, Mr Mayor. Firstly, I'd just like to say that we were pleased to have an update from Sharon Brett from the Hawkesbury Remakery, and she updated the achievements that they'd managed to generate since setting up last year. So the committee decided that we would write to thank Sharon, Liz and the team for what they've done. They're providing a great local service in a not-for-profit setting, which is assisting waste reduction in the Hawkesbury, and they really are getting out amongst the Hawkesbury and people are really utilising the space and utilising their service, which is a wonderful thing to see. As well as that, we had, and I note that Councillor Richards has a notice of motion which is the same or similar to the one, a more formalised version of what we had voted on in the Waste Committee surrounding composting food locally.

So we had a lot of discussion, as we have a number of times in the Waste Committee around that, and we came up with the idea, a bit similar to the Tiny Houses, to have an informal working group, because we know that we've got constraints on staff time to set up another committee. So it was decided to have an informal working group, which was to come up with a proposal to be presented to Council regarding a pilot program. I take on board what Councillor Wheeler said in the last Sustainability Committee report, and that was that the Waste Committee probably, I think we may have been scheduled for one more meeting before the end of this Council term, when that was going to be this September, but— Because of that gap, we were going to go with this informal group.

So what we were hoping was that it could actually go maybe to the Sustainability Committee, because the Sustainability Committee and the Waste Committee, I would think, would and probably should, of course, be amalgamated into one committee eventually, and it would be the ideal thing to be dealing with in terms of sustainability. So that group was going to be starting up now. Obviously, with COVID-19, there's been a slow start to probably getting that off and running. We did discuss, being very careful around this issue, that people with a commercial interest or a vested interest themselves shouldn't simply be chosen to do whatever the pilot program is. So there was a lot of ideas came up through the committee.

There were people with different ideas. So it was going to proceed on an informal basis until we sort of came up with a general idea, and I think it's similar to the one in the Human Services Committee. But I'm not sure if anybody wanted to change anything around that now in here, but that was the committee. Everyone on the committee decided that was the best way forward at the time. So apart from that, we were just pleased to hear of the ongoing success with council's education, waste education programs, which are always being well attended and well received by the community. So a thank you to Justin Murphy for those, and of course the waste strategy is currently being undertaken, and we had a bit of discussion about the various parts of that, which are the audits and so on that are being done to get the information for the waste strategy to be completed.

That was about it.

Thank you, Councillor Wheeler. Would you put your hand up?

Thanks, Mr Mayor. The Deputy Mayor has largely covered this. The working group that's proposed by the Waste Management Committee contains a number of very, very well-informed members who work in waste in private industry and are well able to take this forward, and are also extremely keen to take this forward. And the committee has resolved that it will do that. So I think we need to give them the support to do so. We do need to make a decision quickly regarding this committee though, so that it doesn't lapse. I think most of the members left that meeting believing that it was the last meeting that they would have together, hence the working group to keep pushing along. There's a lot of enthusiasm on that committee to explore FOGO, food and organics collection.

There's a trial in Mullumbimby that it would be pertinent to investigate. I think that that would be possible to replicate in our more densely populated areas like Richmond and Windsor. And I also want to second the Deputy Mayor's comments about the remakery. That's one of the organisations that I'm concerned with in this crisis. I know they've got rent, they've got private rental that they need to pay. So I hope they can ride out this crisis while they can't have groups of people attending workshops and local makers and artists selling their wares. It's an indication of what's going on around us at the moment, I think. But we do need to make a decision about this committee. I don't know if we want to include that in the recommendation, but this committee looks like it's reached its natural life unless we reactivate it.

Deputy Mayor, do you wish to include that in your recommendation?

I do wish to include that, and I would like to know if Councillor Wheeler means the whole committee, would this be a time to— take the whole committee in, or did she really just mean the working group?

Councillor Wheeler.

Look, I don't have a preference, Mr Mayor. We could acknowledge that the working group will continue the work of the Waste Management Advisory Committee. At the very least, we need to contact the members of the Waste Management Advisory Committee with a next meeting date, so that I think that working group can work towards meeting them, meeting that date with a report for the working group to go ahead with. Or we need to make a decision. I don't know that we need to do that this evening. I think if we discussed this extensively, the briefing decided that we probably needed more information, we decided to fate of the committees. So I'm not sure that that would be a helpful thing, that the amalgamation of this with the Sustainability Advisory Committee would be helpful.

But I think we probably need to give the Waste Management Committee another meeting date early in the next financial year, so perhaps July, August, so that the working group has something to work towards. They're all capable of doing this online. I think they were planning to do the bulk of it online anyway. So I don't see any reason why this work needs to stop.

So, Deputy Mayor, for the sake of clarification. Yes, I'm

Happy for that. If we would include setting another meeting date. We were waiting, yeah, we were waiting because of the proposed changes to the committee structure system, so we didn't give a meeting date at the last meeting. But to schedule one for early July, I think would be good, once the staff get through the financial year.

So we'll add that to the recommendation. Councillor Rasmussen, seconder, you're happy to make it.

I'm happy, Mr Mayor. Thank you.

Councillor Kotlash, I thought I saw your little blue hand, but it's gone. Anyone here wish to speak?

Yes.

Councillor Richards.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you for raising that matter, that point two of the recommendation in this report mirrors quite closely the notice of motion that I did bring up tonight. Now, I think that everyone's well aware I'm no expert in waste, so I had written this notice of motion in conjunction with Eric Brocken, who had contacted me to bring this motion to Council to formalise exactly what was written in my motion. Now, not being on the Waste Management Committee—

Sorry, so Councillor Rasmussen can't hear you. What about everyone else? No.

Do I have to come

Councillor Wheeler can.

I'll move. I'll move.

We'll change microphones. Hang on.

Can everybody hear me now? Yes,

Thank you. I was just making a brief note to say that I take on board the comments made just then regarding recommendation point number two and how it mirrored very closely my notice of motion, and I was saying how I think everybody's well aware my expertise do not lie in waste management, but they certainly do with Eric Brocken, and he had contacted me personally to get this motion going, and at the time I was unaware it was something that the Waste Management Committee were actually considering. So I think that we all agree it's something that's worthwhile pursuing. However, I was going to suspend my notice of motion tonight because we could no longer have members of the public come and address this meeting, and I think it's beneficial that in proceeding with such a motion, that Eric can come in and actually talk about it, considering he's the expert.

So I'll be suspending my notice of motion tonight, and I'm happy to deliberate with other councillors how we take that forward, whether it comes back at another meeting when we are again open to the public, or whether the Waste Management Committee continues on with their informal working group. But I think that's something we can discuss down the track, and I'll also be discussing that with Eric. Thanks.

Thank you. Any further speakers?

No? Councillor Ross.

Thank you, Mayor. In reference to the comments just made by my colleague,

The matter was initiated in the Waste Management Committee. I believe it should remain there until such times as the committee decides

What further steps, if any, it wishes to take, and that at this juncture it's still in a

Very formative state of contemplation. And I would believe that before any

Pilot program could be considered, that

A whole lot of logistical matters need to be determined and, in a sense, sorted out. And one of those, of course, would be a site. The other factors , of course, are things like the various elements of collection, intermediate storage, and then removal to the site , wherever that may be. So I would believe that there's still quite a lot of work to be done in the committee before it could come forward to the council. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any further speakers? No. Deputy Mayor, would you like right of reply? Yes,

Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you to councillors for that input. And thank you to Councillor Richards regarding her notice of motion. As Eric was one of the main instigators regarding the informal working group, I assume that he will continue. But we will contact the working group and perhaps if any of them have any other information that they require, specifically from council, such as some that was put in the notice of motion, we can have a meeting and let you know, and then we can take it from there, because there are a number of people on the base committee, as Councillor Wheeler said, who do work in that sphere. And we had some great ideas coming forward, and I think if we just get them all together just in a meeting like this, and we can take it from there and see how it's going to proceed forward.

Thank you. It's been moved and seconded. I'll put the motion. If you're in favour, please raise your hand. In favour is Councillor Kotlash, Councillor Garrow, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Reynolds, Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Rasmussen, Councillor Richards, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor Ross, and Councillor Calvert. Absent is Councillor Tree. Declare it carried.

Item 61, which is Floodplain Risk Management Advisory Committee. Would anyone like to move that?

Moved, Mr Mayor.

Moved by the Deputy Mayor, seconded by Councillor Rasmussen. Deputy Mayor, you wish to speak?

Yes, I'll just outline what we did go through briefly at the meeting, because it may be of interest to other councillors. It was that we just happened to meet not long after the recent floods, so we had a discussion about that. We gave feedback; you can see the feedback on page 95 of the business paper. There was a number of issues raised surrounding the recent floods, and we did have a presentation from Stephen Yeo from Infrastructure New South Wales. He advised there's still more flood education to come out by direct mail to people in this area. It had been delayed because of the bushfires, ironically, and so it's still to come. There was a bit of concern raised that perhaps the big amount of money spent on the campaign hadn't particularly resonated with all the people in this area, so that's good to know that there's more to come.

There was discussions as well about the confusion about how the flood ratings are presented to community. For this to be in a much more understandable and uniformed way, so that people, when we have a flood, they're not getting conflicting terms. They're not, you know, we want them to understand what it means. And there was some clarification given by the SES about the difference of the information that comes from the Bureau of Meteorology, which gives the vertical flood heights at different locations, and then the SES takes that information, and then they apply that to be able to describe the horizontal effects of the flood. So that's why there's a difference, and that's why some people were saying, you know, I saw on this particular platform, you know, on the BOM site or something, that this was happening, and other people say that the SES is saying this.

So there's a definite need for further uniformity to ensure that people understand both the terminology and how this information is being delivered. So that was taken on board and is going to be looked at. The SES advised us that, interestingly, it was 28 years to the actual day since the last flood of the Hawkesbury River. So that was an interesting thing to know. Twenty-eight years is a long time, and of course that's a whole generation and a half of people that hadn't seen a flood. We also had a discussion about the responsibilities surrounding bridge closures and reopenings and so on. That was interesting, and that we are still seeking information about the power issues around the power supply west of the river during flooding, and also that we would like to have a monitor, a gauge on South Creek near the confluence with the Hawkesbury River so that we get a better idea of the flooding in that area, because obviously there's some changing flood patterns to do with South Creek and what's going on, and that's what we're going to hopefully have investigated.

Another issue that was raised, and it's one that we really must pursue, is to advise Sydney Water about the issues with the three towns sewer, or specifically, as Councillor Wheeler outlined, what happened with the sewer system in Wilberforce during the flood. That could become a public health issue and is something that needs to be looked at, and we assume that the same happening lost over in Freemans Reach, maybe it didn't. Aside from that, Council has applied for some more state government funding for profiling the vulnerability of the Hawkesbury local government area, disaster recovery and insurance premiums, and also to do the Grose River study. So doing that study is assisting us to reach our aim of having studies done of all the waterways in the catchment in the valley, which means we'll have a much more comprehensive set of data to be looking at.

Previously, you may recall, we received funding to do the McDonald Valley and the Webbs Creek studies. So it was a good flood meeting. We were presented with some photos Stephen Yeo had of the recent flood, and there was certainly a lot of discussion about it. But I think it was productive because they were all issues that we've been asking about either before the flood or we've raised after the flood, and I think they'll be looked into and hopefully dealt with soon. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Mr Mayor. This was, as the Deputy Mayor has outlined, this was a really useful meeting, particularly the attendance of the SES, Infrastructure New South Wales and the Department of Planning. I just want to note that in the minutes, Mr Salim Zaman is referred to as coming from the Office of Environment and Heritage, which I think may be an old cut and paste OEH; I don't think exists anymore, so we'll need to update that. But having the attendance of those representatives on this committee is really, really useful, and having Stephen Yeo attend this meeting so close to the floods, with the express purpose of collecting information and feedback from us about the experience of the floods that he would then take back to Infrastructure New South Wales, was particularly useful while it was so fresh in everyone's minds.

And as 2020 evolves, you can see that you don't get much time to debrief from one crisis before you're smack in the middle of yet another one. So had we not done that at that time, I don't think we would have had the same clarity and the same recall if he hadn't come out. So that was really useful. I would like to ask if the mover would consider adding to recommendation 3D where it refers to the sewage connections in Wilberforce, Freeman's Reach and Glossodia, that Council not only advises Sydney Water, but that we note it as a compliance issue. So just an additional wording, and Council notes this as a compliance issue. It appears that despite the best efforts of Sydney Water, when Wilberforce, Freeman's Reach and— study, it was shifted to the three-town sewerage system to come out and check everybody's plumbing to make sure that people hadn't plumbed stormwater into the sewer, that some people have not either have not maintained the correct connection or have put in dodgy connections down the track.

So Sydney Water, we had our pump seized and we had to have Sydney Water come out and check it, and that it took three days for them to arrive. That it was like that all over the workforce. So there were alarms ringing for days. Everyone who has an electric pump has a little red light and an alarm that goes off, and we could hear the alarms going off all over the neighbourhood. And Sydney Water said they basically had to replace nearly all the pumps in Hawkesbury because the volume of stormwater pumped into the sewer, which isn't designed to deal with it, overloads all pumps, and then there's a backflow into the system and everybody shuts down. Now you've really only got a couple of days' worth of space in your tank, and so after that you're looking at a flow into the backyard, which happened to many people.

It's a clear public health risk and it's something that Council needs to be aware of when we go out and inspect buildings to make sure that people haven't put in a dodgy connection because it's cheaper than digging another line out to the stormwater. So that's something that not only Sydney Water has to be aware of, Council as the inspector needs to be aware of as well.

Deputy Mayor, are you happy to make that addition?

Can you hear me, Deputy Mayor? Can't hear you.

Yes, happy to do that. Thank you.

Councillor Rasmussen, a seconder, you happy to make that?

I am indeed, Mr Mayor. Thank you.

Thank you. Councillor Wheeler, you finished? Councillor Rasmussen, you wish to speak? Yes,

Thank you, Mr Mayor. Mr Mayor, the comment that I would wish to make is that the flood, as we know, came up very, very quickly. In fact, it was virtually overnight. And quite a few of the farmers along in the lowlands from Yarramundi through around to Wilberforce got caught with pumps and other infrastructure as a result of no warning or very little warning, if any warning. And also, and I think that's a failing of the system. I think we've got to get better at that, or the people who are meant to give us warnings need to get better at that, in my view. Secondly , the road closures, particularly up where I was and where I am at Yarramundi, there was quite a bit of confusion . And in fact, the bridge was well and truly covered by probably three or four hundred centimetres of water before anybody turned up to give warning that the bridge was under flood and not passable or shouldn't be passed.

In fact, there were a couple of people that I noticed who were driving across with probably close to 200 mil of water across the deck of the bridge. So those sorts of things, now I'm not sure—well,

I am sure—that that needs to improve, but Yeah , so if we could pass back through our, and I'd been doing it through Water New South Wales because I go to their board meetings and so on, and I'm certainly not, you know, happy with what's happened there, but it does cost an awful lot of money to repair, replace, or even recover, if you can, you know, six-inch, 12-inch pumps that have been floated off down the river. So that's, I think we need to be aware of that. The agricultural industry, particularly in the lowland areas, is very important to all of us, to the Hawkesbury region and our economy, and I think we need to try and get a better warning system happening if that's at all possible. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Thank you. Are there any other speakers? No. Councillor Garrow, yes, I can see you. Oh

Hi. I just wanted to reiterate in what Deputy Mayor spoke about regards to the river height gauges on South Creek. As I live in that area, the behaviour of South Creek flood during this flood was really something quite different that's ever happened before. The height markers have not been monitored there; I don't think there actually are height markers there anymore. I've got long-term

Residents spoke about their

Experience of never seen the behaviour of the flood of South Creek like it was at this time. The water was bubbling

Upstream

Right up until Sunday night and then turned around and came back in and flooded that area. So I think it's really imperative that We get some action onto South Creek and monitor the activity of the floods that are happening there so that we can help and warn the residents in that precinct. Because obviously there's been some major changes to the topography, sorry, by what's going on around there, and we really need to get on top of this because it's only going to get worse. This is the first time that the floodwater has flooded from South Creek and not broken the banks of the Hawkesbury River, as I've been told by one of the local farmers in the area. So if we can get some action on that, that'd be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Thank you. Any further speakers? Councillor Reynolds.

Yes, thanks, Mr Mayor. I'd just again, I'd like to add to the statements by Councillor Garrow and Councillor Lyons-Buckett, in that I think it's critical that the height of South Creek is monitored during a flood.

The runoff from the development not only around Marsden Park and Elara is impacting on the flooding of South Creek, but also the development around in the Hills District is going into the chain of ponds and then flowing into McKenzie's Creek and then backing up South Creek. Speaking as an old local, when I went to Windsor High School, the Windsor Bridge would go under.

So, Councillor Reynolds, did you finish then?

No, actually, I was just sort of getting to the point, Mr Mayor, that it's the runoff from all the development occurring in the South Creek floodplain, which has totally changed the nature of flooding in South Creek. And that's why I put it to the committee to lobby for a height gauge in South Creek, you know, ideally around Blacktown Road, because the nearest monitored level of South Creek we have is over on the Great Western Highway. There's nothing downstream. And so none of the runoff is monitored. And we end up with a situation, like I said, now where McGraths Hill flats go under, and, you know, while even the old bridge will be opened, and that never occurred in floods in previous years.

And so we have a lot of properties in low-lying areas that are impacted by flooding from South Creek, and not necessarily the river, who have no, who cannot monitor the level of South Creek. And so hopefully, if we can get, work with Blacktown Council and get a height gauge in South Creek, that will then appear on the BOM site with the data to do with river levels and dam levels. And so then residents will be able to monitor it, and the SES will be able to monitor it, because they weren't really aware of the problem at the time. And Peter Chinquay made notes about the issue. So I think it's really important that we push for the placement of a height gauge on South Creek in our LGA to take care of our people.

Thank you.

Thank you. Are there any further speakers?

Councillor Ross.

Just make the comment that in light of what we've just heard from our colleagues, that possibly the Director of Infrastructure might

Consider what risk that places the McGraths Hill treatment works in, or the treatment ponds and so on. And if this is going to be a continuing feature of that area, because we've also got the development of Schofields now residentially , which would appear at this juncture to be having some impact around the back of Naremba, former Naremba. So I'd just like to alert that to everyone's attention. Thank you.

Thank you. Would there be any other speakers? If not, Deputy Mayor, do you want to write a reply?

Not necessary. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Okay

In that case, I'll put the motion . If you're in favour of the motion, please raise your hand. In favour are Councillor Richards, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Ross, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Kotlash, Councillor Garrow, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor Rasmussen, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Reynolds and Councillor Wheeler. Was that a yes? Yes. Councillor Tree is absent. Declare it carried.

Is on block, we go now to item number 63, which is the Heritage Advisory Committee. Does anyone wish to move anything on that? Councillor Wheeler . You're moving that, Councillor Wheeler?

Yes,

Please, Mr Mayor. Seconded, Mr Mayor. Seconded Councillor Rasmussen. Councillor Wheeler, you wish to speak

Just a bit of an overview of the meeting. You'll note in the recommendations the committee's comments about the interpretation plan for Windsor Bridge, and we've been through this in a briefing already. It was very useful, I think, for Kylie Christian from WolfPeak and Graeme Stan from the RMS to discuss this matter with the Heritage Advisory Committee and to flesh out some ways forward. So I would thank them both for coming. It was quite useful, I think. It was a fairly heated discussion, but I think people at least felt like they had been heard by the end of it . I want to just briefly run through the recommendation three in relation to the heritage awards. So we were told in the recent briefing that there wouldn't be funding in this year's budget to conduct the heritage awards. The heritage awards were devised by a working group from the Heritage Advisory Committee

Widely accessible to the community and also involve school kids. Much of that photography would be presented in digital format at some of the locations that Ikomos are due to visit, including the Australian Pioneer Village, where I think they're due for lunch or morning tea on the day that they come out. ICOMOS is an international committee that looks at monuments and items of international heritage significance, and Hawkesbury put in a bid for ICOMOS to visit the region. It's a very, very big deal that ICOMOS comes here. It's also a way of Council showcasing its heritage not only to an international heritage body and historians throughout Australia, but also to local community members so that they really come to see just how extraordinary the heritage that the Hawkesbury has is.

And so the committee were hoping that a small pocket of money could be allocated to devise a photographic competition, particularly bringing schools into that, and start that as a means of branding and marketing the heritage awards that would take place next year.

Thank you.

Thanks. Any

Speakers in the chamber? Councillor Reynolds, you've got your hand up.

Yes, thanks, Mr Mayor. I'd just like to tell councillors that during the presentation from Wolfpeak, the committee was informed, contrary to Councillors Zamprogno's comments on the record in Council that the only Aboriginal archaeology recovered was a box of gravel, that they actually recovered tens of thousands of artefacts. This showed proof of the civilised people living in Thompson Square over 23,000 years ago, and that Wolf Peak regarded that as of national significance. Importantly, it also showed the adaptation of the Aboriginal people to European settlement in that they used items, European items such as bits of glass, bits of ceramic, etc., to fashion these items into tools that they could use in their way of life .

And we'll get these artefacts, and hopefully we'll get them on display. It's unfortunate the RMS isn't going to stump up for a proper place to display these items, and we have to sacrifice some of our space in our museum. But it is important to get on the record the significance not only of the European and colonial archaeology, which is not found anywhere else in the country, but also the Aboriginal artefacts. They're quite phenomenal, and it's disappointing to hear the Liverpool Council has just dismissed them as a box of gravel.

Thank you. Councillor Garrow, is your hand up

No. Deputy Mayor, is your hand up?

Yes, yes, my blue hand is up. Thank you. I just wanted to add to that, Mr Mayor, that in the floodplain committee, we did discuss having the draft interpretation plan, heritage plan, be sent to SES and Infrastructure New South Wales for the input on the proposed flood information that is going to form part of that plan. So I forgot to mention that, but that would—we know we've had some discussions about how the— The flood information will be interpreted and presented, and so we decided in the Floodplain Committee to seek the input from the SES and Infrastructure New South Wales on that.

Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Reynolds, I assume your hand is still up from before, or did you wish to speak again?

Any further speakers? Councillor Wheeler, right of reply

Thanks, Mr Mayor. Just to follow up a couple of points made by the Deputy Mayor and Councillor Reynolds, one of the key points that came from the Heritage Advisory Committee regarding the interpretation plan for Thompson Square was that it's particularly important that

Thank you. That was right of reply. If you are in favour of this motion, please raise your hand. In favour is Councillor Ross, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Reynolds, Councillor Rasmussen, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Garrow, Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Kotlash. If you're against, please raise your hand. Against is Councillor Zamprogno and Councillor Conolly. Absent is Councillor Tree, and sorry, and Councillor Richards is against. Sorry, your hand didn't go.

Councillor Richards is against too, so I declare it carried. We now move to item notice of motion.

We now move to item notice of motion one, which is Councillor Richards' notice of motion.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. As previously discussed under the minutes of the Waste Management Committee, I'll be withdrawing this notice of motion under 10.3 of the code. I will be in further consultation with Mr Brocken to decide whether he wants to bring it back as another motion, or whether he is content to continue with the informal working group under the Waste Committee. He had contacted me to make sure that we actually solidified and cemented this process and made sure that it went forward. But I'm very happy to do that in the Waste Management Committee with those members who also are keen to participate. So I will speak further to Eric Brocken on that and see what he wants to do with this motion.

However, I would like the other councillors to just have a really good read of what entails there. Eric is the expert in that field of waste to compost, and I really hope that in the future our council can move forward with doing this kind of a project. However, I understand in the current environment that we're in under the COVID-19 issues we have going on, also with financial constraints, it may not be the right time to actually go forward with the actual motion as here in the business paper. So I'm going to withdraw that unless anyone's got anything they want to discuss.

No, if it's withdrawn, then it's not on the business paper and we can't discuss it.

Move to item number

66, 65. 65, which is Councillor Ross's notice of motion. I assume, Councillor Ross, you want to move that? Yes. Thank you. Yes, Mayor. Yeah, do we have a seconder, please?

Do we have a seconder for the notice of motion? Going once, going twice. No seconder. Notice of motion lapses.

We move now to item number 66 , Notice of Motion 3. Councillor Wheeler, I assume you're moving that. Yes, please. Do we have a seconder for that? Councillor, Deputy Mayor, seconding that. Councillor Wheeler, you wish to speak?

Thanks, Mr Mayor. So this notice of motion is really what it says on the tin. It's an attempt to allow us to better carry out our responsibilities as one of the LGA's largest employers and provider of essential services like waste collection. Because the State and Federal Government regulations and responses are continuously evolving, Council's activities and responsibilities are also changing rapidly, and we see that tonight with this now largely online meeting, which sends a strong message to the community that it's really important to stay home and to protect vulnerable members of our community while continuing to do our jobs. It's not enough for Council to simply put these matters down as operational.

As elected representatives and directors of this organisation, we need full information about the health, safety and working conditions of the staff we employ. Further, as custodians of the area, we need to ensure that all possible steps to protect vulnerable have been taken where we can. You can see there's a particular reference to casual employees in point one. Casual employees are particularly vulnerable to the impacts of the loss of employment. Sorry, Mr Mayor, I need to interrupt myself. I sent some different wording through to the staff this afternoon, and also to councillors, which is a minor change to the notice of motion. What you see in the business paper becomes point one, with six sub points and then an additional point two.

I don't know

We can't put it up on the screen, so can you tell

Us

What point two is?

Yeah, I have sent that on my iPad. Hang on, just give me—

Can you hold it up?

Yeah, that'll work.

Is it very long? Can you read it out?

Hang on, yes, I'll just need to— What time did you send it? Oh , look, I could tell you if I could look at my iPad, but I can't because it's being a Zoom meeting.

I've just got a copy from Mr McElroy.

Can you hold it up?

Yeah, good.

Would you be able to read it out, Mr Mayor, sorry. Point

Two is council staff compile a list of priority projects consistent with the CSP that could be used to provide local employment, ready for stimulus funding from federal and state governments.

Is that the right one? Yes,

Thank you, Mr Mayor.

You want to continue? Yes

So the notice of motion is largely unchanged apart from the addition of that point. So I'm particularly concerned about casual employees being very vulnerable to the impacts of loss of employment, and I want to acknowledge the federal government's long overdue increase to Newstart that will make some difference, but casual employees usually have little in the way of safety nets. I don't know how many long-term casual staff we employ, and I'd like to. It was the practice of previous councils to use casual staff in place of permanent employees, and I hope that that hasn't continued because it really is unethical. I also note that the federal government wage subsidy for casual— is now being put in place, but it requires 12 months with the same employer, so short-term casuals will also miss out.

Casual staff deserve the same protections as other employees, and Council should be moving to redeploy them in essential functions wherever possible to ensure that their skills remain within the organisation and their loyalty to us is rewarded. Where Council still has staff attending Council offices, we also need to ensure that they and subsequently their families are kept safe, and I'd like further information about what we're doing to ensure that. We also need to better understand our responsibilities as landlords and where we can provide relief to our tenants, especially not-for-profit organisations. We need to see what assistance we can provide to community organisations currently acting as a lifeline to vulnerable community members, particularly the elderly and homeless.

I understand from talking to some of these organisations, like Rotary Souping Hands, that they are absolutely swamped and being contacted also by out-of-area councils and other organisations. They are extremely worried for their patrons and their volunteers because they just can't cope with the volume of requests that they're receiving on a daily basis. Point five, I freely admit, remains a movable feast. So we know now what will happen with Council meetings. I think we need to move our committee meetings online to continue the engagement and momentum of those committees, and we also need to send clear instructions to management committees and users of our facilities if we haven't already done so.

We need to provide the community with security around rates and hardship through easy-to-understand information, and I strongly recommend that Council apply easy-read guidelines. These documents, when people's heads are full of crisis and stress, they really need additional information so that they can digest what's put in front of them. I think it's also really important that we're ready if state and federal governments call for projects for stimulus funding as the crisis abates. Point two, we know from both the Heritage and Floodplain Risk Management Committees that having a list of projects that are ready to go is crucial to obtaining funding. The livability project will have several things ready to go.

We've got capital works and roads funding that we still require. We've got parks that could use a facelift from major overhauls. We've got internal building works and community projects. We need to make sure that we're not caught flat-footed if there's a funding announcement made. We need to be ready to move. These projects can provide local jobs and local stimulus, so it's really important that we're ready. I'd like to commend Bellengen Council's information model for councillors—sorry, for staff—and also their neighbourhood care network. They're also a fire-affected council. Their information model dovetails really neatly into bushfire recovery information. It's easy to find, it's easy to understand, and it's updated regularly.

Bellingen has also put in place a neighbourhood care network. It's a community initiative in partnership with the council and supported by council. It provides monitoring of vulnerable individuals, support, and a business network, and it's designed to assist the vulnerable and build a stronger community. So it will become quite a resilience-building exercise as it carries on. I'd like to commend it to staff and anyone else who's interested in it. I don't intend— Motion be political or politicised, it's just a straightforward attempt to protect our staff and our community in unprecedented circumstances, and I hope that other councillors can support it. Thank you.

Thank you. Deputy Mayor, you wish to speak?

Thank you, Mr Mayor, and thank you to Councillor Wheeler for this notice of motion. I just wanted to say particularly about the projects, to have some projects costed and ready to go if we can, because I do recall during the GFC that there were calls for funding, and I don't know that at the time Council had a lot of things on the table ready to submit to get the funding. So that was a number of years ago, different council , but I think that's a really good idea because we certainly have a lot we want to get done. The other thing was a question, the rates. Has there been any follow-up with the discussions with the State Government regarding any relief for council rates during the COVID-19?

Mr Conroy?

No, there's been no developments on that front at the moment. So we've been in touch with the Office of Local Government and Local Government New South Wales, but they're still matters that are under consideration. Okay,

Thank you. I think that was a no.

I think he said no, there's been no further information.

No further information, thank you. The other thing was with regard to— Just sort of along these lines, with the closure of the waste management facility, which I understand the reasoning for doing that, I still have the concern that if we don't give some alternatives to the people in the areas without bin collection, we're going to have a problem on our hands. So is there an update on if we've managed to think of something to put in place there? Thank you.

Mr Conroy. So the relevant staff are looking at options in relation to that. So in the past, we've put forward proposals for isolated areas like St Albans to provide special opportunities for them. In other situations, we've increased the provision of our normal weekly pickup services with extra bins and things like that, and we've also, on occasions, looked at appointments. All those things are being considered by staff, and there will be a package that will be coming back into the community. But in the meantime, we're maintaining all our existing services, so the domestic waste, all the other recycling, hard rubbish, all those services are still in place and operational

Thank you. I was actually referring to the people that don't have a bin collection, which is sections of Colo Heights and Upper Colo and some places in the Wisemans Ferry area. But they normally take their rubbish to the tip periodically. I just hope that those alternatives might include putting some sort of large facility they can take the rubbish to in their location. Thank you.

Thank you. Councillor Kotlash

Thank you,

Mr Mayor . I am not going to support this motion, notice of motion. And it's for a few reasons. While I understand that we all want to help in any way we can during the COVID crisis, I think that this well-meant notice of motion is actually unnecessary to call on our staff to prepare reports on processes that are already in motion by Council, to address the fallout of a rapidly changing crisis with added burden of an already stretched and stressed staff. And given the pace of change, such a report would probably be out of date by the time it got back to Council. We councillors are already getting frequent briefings on the challenges faced and the measures being taken, and we have the opportunity to ask questions at that time.

In the last weeks, we have been briefed as necessary, and I'm satisfied that we are doing all that we can to make sure that our staff and the wider community are protected and looked after.

While all the matters in the notice of motion are relevant and important, I'm not prepared to burden our staff further by supporting the notice of motion that asks for information we already have and which could be more than likely outdated when it's presented. But I suggest that if any councillors have their own clear-on matters after a briefing or think that they have something constructive to contribute, that they stick to pick up the phone or email either the General Manager or the Mayor. I just think we have to— Really be very mindful of the burden that we're putting on staff. I'm really, I'm really quite satisfied that we will have all of those things that Councillor Wheeler mentioned, and most of them have been discussed and have been discussed before. So I'm sorry, I'm not going to support this notice of motion. Thank you.

Councillor Reynolds.

Yes, thanks, Mr Mayor. I have a question for staff. Could staff tell us what non-for-profit organisations hold leases with councils, roughly?

Mr Conroy.

Mr Mayor, I was going to speak to the councillors after the meeting tonight. We've actually got a breakdown of the 82 commercial leases that we have, and we've got an analysis of some of those in terms of whether they're government funded or not, and whether we've been approached in terms of seeking assistance, and we're working our way through those with all the relevant parties. The not-for-profit is probably in the order of nine leases.

Nine, yes. Yes, that's correct. Okay,

Thank you. I then speak in support of the notice of motion. I take on board Councillor Kotlash's words and— To some extent agree with them, but not enough to vote against this notice of motion, in that the report itself is

Not an onerous request. It's just a set of questions. It doesn't require any real in-depth research. It's just questions of staff, which

We as councillors, as directors, and the community should know. There are real underlying issues to deal with the lockdown situation while the semi-lockdown situation we currently find ourselves in, and it could be a full-blown lockdown situation tomorrow or the next day, where we end up with the terrible situation where domestic violence victims are locked in. their own homes, and that will place additional burdens on community groups and not-for-profits such as the Women's Cottage. And as the council and as the tier of government that deals with the community on the street, we need to be aware of the impact on them, and we need to take care of them. And I think that this motion goes a way to support that.

This sort of issue isn't going to be taken care of by state government or the federal government. It's up to us, and I think that not to even do that small thing would be terribly negligent on our part. And God knows what the outcomes could be. So I support the motion.

Thank you. Any further speakers? Councillor Ross.

Thank you, Mayor. I'd like to pick up where the Deputy Mayor was venturing earlier with a question. Firstly , I'm also concerned about our outdoor staff, and I notice that we have quite a number involved in

Outdoor activities where there are two persons

Situated in a vehicle cab,

And I'm wanting to inquire whether that practice is going to stop and that there will be the truck and then... Something in the order of another vehicle with the other party, following to a particular worksite. What is envisaged, please?

Mr Mayor, that practice has ceased. So at the moment, if we've got a truck, it travels to the site with one person in the truck and the second person follows along in another vehicle. We've also made arrangements for start and finish. In some situations where staff drive to the site, do the work and then leave from the site, there is always an exceptional circumstances, and sometimes we do have to move staff around, and if that's the case, we'll be using a dual cab and we'll be having two people in the dual cab, and they'll both be wearing relevant equipment and taking appropriate protections. But the general approach is one person per vehicle

Thank you. In the case of a dual cab, does that mean you're going to be putting up perspex or other

Barrier between the front of the operator's section of the cab and the passenger section?

No, we won't be putting perspex up. We'll be using other opportunities such as masks over the mouth and things like that.

I would also like to express grave concern. With the manner in which the closure of the driftway refuse facility has been undertaken, it apparently appeared on social media

And wasn't either made known to councillors or on the council website until about 4.42 p.m. yesterday, as I understand. I don't think that's an acceptable way in which to conduct matters. I also believe that it should have been brought to the attention of council before any such decision was made , because I firmly believe that there are valid reasons for that facility to remain open and that what has occurred is not going to be very well regarded by our community, who in some cases have very valid reasons to visit the site and conduct

Deposition of refuse there. I'm not aware that it is a tourist facility and it's attracting great hordes of motorists with nothing better to do.

The concern, of course, is with people along our previously flooded rivers with waste, and as I understand. Quite a number of properties are being supplied large skip bins in which to deposit the materials. In some cases, that would be not of a very pleasant order, I would imagine, and should be removed post haste. The situation of tradespeople within the area and business people generally, who, well, for instance with all of the tradespeople—

Just a point of order, Mr Mayor. At the moment, none of this debate seems to be relevant to the motion before us. I'm not sure if there is an amendment that was meant to be moved before this debate commenced, but I don't think we're talking about whether or not the waste management facility should be open.

I believe that what we're talking about is Council's response to the COVID-19 virus outbreak, which I think is what Councillor Ross is talking about.

Respectfully, if you'll allow me, Mr Mayor, the motion before us is that we receive a report on a set number of matters. If you were debating about opening the waste management facility, would you be debating in favour or against this motion? I can't see how you would be doing either.

Point taken. Councillor Ross, can you try and restrict yourself to the matter in the notice of motion, please?

Indeed. I support the aim of protecting staff in all respects. But I fail to concur with the manner in which it's being done on this occasion in regard to the facility at the driftway. I believe that with a little bit of ingenuity on behalf of management, the degree of separation that would be able to be provided there for the two people at the gatehouse would enable

Adequate consideration of the WHS issues involved to be addressed without compromising the public safety aspects of the removal of refuse at this juncture. Thank you. And

Thank you. Any further speakers?

No. Councillor Sam Proctor.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. I'm generally in favour of Councillor Wheeler's notice of motion on the proviso that this is indeed not onerous at a time of limited resources to answer those questions. Certainly, we've had to deal with the same questions at the Hawkesbury River County Council. Of course, it's a much smaller organisation. I'm happy to report that none of them are casual. But one of the things that I stated to the general manager of the county council is that I would not like to see staff drained of their personal leave entitlements in the event of a stand down or a self-isolation. Could I ask the staff— What provision there is, in the case of a stand down or a health self-isolation relating to leave, is there any danger that this will drain the leave entitlements that they have, or are there special leave entitlements for staff?

Mr Mayor, there are some special leave arrangements that have been negotiated between Local Government New South Wales and the relevant unions, and generally councils across metropolitan Sydney are adhering to that. So there's two weeks special leave that's available. Staff also have carers leave, sick leave, annual leave, long service leave, but we're also endeavouring to ensure that all our staff have meaningful work to do throughout this period. So we've, as I outlined to Councillors last week, we've focused initially on identifying vulnerable staff and getting them working in as safe a condition as possible. We then identified the critical staff and recast them into smaller cells so that again we don't get just one large group impacted. We're trying to

Mitigate the opportunity for sections to be hit in a significant way. So to that end, we've moved locations in terms of buildings. We've again moved to different work locations such as working from home. And then we're generally moving to getting as many people to work from home as possible , and also we've changed the work conditions and work arrangements with the outdoor staff to ensure that they're travelling solo and that people are travelling to start and finish arrangements and things like that. All of this is about Three things, and that is protecting the welfare of staff, promoting good hygiene and ensuring that they have ongoing, valuable and meaningful work. And that continues to be the way we're approaching it, and we monitor it on a daily basis.

We've got a crisis management team that meets every day and reassesses situations as they arise, and sometimes things—I'll go back one step. This is not a situation where anyone in this organisation has got experience to work from. It's totally new in almost every way. We're moving from old traditional workstyles to new, totally different workstyles, and we will get things wrong from time to time, and things will pop up unexpectedly, and we're dealing with those, and that's what we'll continue to do.

I thank the general manager for his remarks. I'd point out, firstly, I agree with the general manager. I mean, the most paramount consideration is the safety and welfare of our staff, and I'm sure everybody shares that priority. The other commendable feature of Councillor Wheeler's notice of motion is that it asks us to be mindful of the opportunities that will present themselves on the upside of this. I know it's very early to be talking about the upside of a thoroughly wretched and awful situation, but there will be activities sponsored significantly with state and federal money to restart the economy, and I think it's good for Council to be mindful of the ways in which it may be able to participate in those activities, and for that reason I'm happy to support the notice of motion.

Councillor Conolly.

Thanks, Mr Mayor. I don't disagree with a lot of what Councillor Kotlash said. However, I do think that this is a major, major event in the economy as well as the community from a health perspective. It's probably not tenable that we take a position that we don't want any reporting to us, even though it might be onerous and even though— Even though it might become outdated quickly, I agree with those points. However, I feel like we do have an obligation as the councillors of this council to have checked in the things we think are appropriate to check in on and get a formal report. I would just take the time, though, I understand I'm going to support the motion on the basis that it's just calling for a report.

A couple of things: I don't think we should be, however, necessarily saying we should be ensuring that staff on casual employment contracts have access to other entitlements. We should be asking whether they do and what the impact of that would likely be on people. Whether or not rental relief should be provided to especially not-for-profit organisations, I think we should ask about not-for-profit organisations. However, I've spent the last nine or ten working days working with businesses that are, you know, absolutely hit the wall, have absolutely nothing in the tank, and just desperately trying to cling on. A lot of not-for-profits haven't actually had their funding model impacted at all necessarily.

So yes, we should consider them, but I don't know that I necessarily agree that they deserve special consideration. Whether or not council wants to get involved in providing or subsidising or funding food delivery services, I don't think that's necessarily within the jurisdiction of local government. However, I do think overall the notice of motion is necessary, and we should call for a report. And given how hard I think it would be to ask for amendments in the current format of the council meeting, and they're not that consequential, so I'm inclined to support it as it is.

Thank you. Further speakers?

Can I just add, I understand what Councillor Kotlash is saying, that I don't think right now is the time for us to be calling for extra reports from the staff. The staff give us regular updates, and indeed the general manager was planning to give us an update at the end of this meeting where most of these things would have been addressed. And maybe the problem would be that councillors don't think the updates are regular enough or frequent enough. Maybe that's the issue. But calling for a report right now about things that by definition must change very quickly in the next week or so, I think is really wasting everyone's time. I do understand that this is a major issue and we need to keep on top of it, but I think the staff are doing that, and the reports, the updates we're getting from staff show that we are on top of it.

What I would prefer to see is that if councillors have any ideas on how staff might improve what they're doing, then they should send those ideas directly to the general manager rather than putting up a notice of motion in here in Council and getting a report which to me will not be very useful by the time we receive it. Therefore I won't be voting for this notice of motion. Councillor Wheeler, right of reply.

Thanks, Mr Mayor. I want to cover a few of the points raised. This isn't intended to inconvenience staff in any way. I am well aware of just how busy the staff are on their third natural disaster in nearly as many months. But it's not inconvenient to ask for the information that enables us to do our job. The purpose of this is to give a clear indication to staff that we expect the things that are laid out in this notice of motion to be done, to protect our staff, to protect our workers, to protect casual workers, to look at how we can support particularly— Not in any way take calling into question what our executive staff are doing and the decision they're making. This isn't intended to be a means of second guessing the operational decisions of our management executive.

What it tends to do is give some principles to operate within. It's about clarity and transparency and Council being able to be agile and responsive as an organisation. I'm very grateful to Councillor Reynolds for raising domestic violence as an issue. It is already playing out as a huge issue in this crisis. For, unfortunately, for some members of our community, home is not the safest place for them to be. And there's already been an increase in reports of abuse, and stakeholders within the sector are expecting a very large increase. We are already hearing that there's a huge increase in calls for support from support organisations, both within and outside the Hawkesbury LGA, and our organisations simply cannot cope.

Now we need to know that from our staff, from within the organisation, so that we can respond to it. It shouldn't be something that we learn on Facebook with everybody else. We need to know this so that we can make the hard decisions when it comes to passing our budget in the coming months about what we do with this. I have discussed this with the general manager. I don't think he wants to have that discussion 12 times. We need this information so that we can do our jobs, and that's all this is designed to do. It's not designed to second guess. It's not designed to be difficult. It doesn't need to be. a series of lengthy reports. It's simply a written form made available to both us and the public that talks about what council is doing in this space.

I don't think that's unreasonable in any way. I think that's our job.

Thank you. That was right of reply. If you are in favour of this motion, please raise your hand. In favour are Councillor Richards, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor Reynolds, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Rasmussen, Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Garrow. If you're against, please raise your hand. Against is Councillor Ross, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Potlash. Absent is Councillor Tree. Declare it carried.

Now, at this stage we're just about to go into confidential, and to those people who might be watching through YouTube, what will happen is when we decide to go to confidential, the screen will freeze, and we'll be back in maybe half an hour or so to go through the rest of the meeting. If you've got patience, you might want to hang around for that. And I might suggest to councillors that right now might be also a good time for us to take a five-minute break. So could we firstly have someone move that we move into confidential? Moved that way, Mr Mayor. Councillor Rasmussen, seconded Deputy Mayor. All those in favour say aye. Aye. Declare it carried.

Call on Mr. Misser to report on the outcomes of the confidential business section, please.

Thanks, Mr. Mayor. In regard to item 67, whilst in closed session, Council resolved on the motion of Councillor Rasmussen, seconded by Councillor Garrow, that: one, Council extend the JJ Richards and Sons Proprietary Limited household kerbside co-mingled recycling collection service for a period of three years under the same general terms and conditions as per the current contracts. Two, Council extend the Transpacific Cleanaway Proprietary Limited kerbside bulk waste collection service for a period of three years under the same general terms and conditions as per the current contracts. Three, Council extend the JJ Richards and Sons Proprietary Limited containerised garden organics collection and processing service for a period of three years under the same general terms and conditions as per the current contracts.

Four, Council officers prepare a report to Council expanding on the opportunities and timelines for introducing short-term improvements in respect of the existing waste services. Voting in favour of the resolution were Councillors Ross, Rasmussen, Garrow, Reynolds, Wheeler, Lyons-Buckett, Kotlash, Zamprogno, Conolly, Richards and Calvert. Councillor Tree was not present. In regard to item 68, I think Councillor Garrow had an interest. Do you need

To declare it? You need

To declare

Your interest again, Councillor Garrow.

To pecuniary interests, I am an employee of one of the tenants.

And does she need to leave? Yes. Sorry, you need to leave. Sorry.

So in regard to item 68, whilst in closed session, Council resolved on the motion of Councillor Lyons-Buckett, seconded by Councillor Kotlash, that: one, Council agree to enter into a new licence agreement with nine of the existing tenants of the property known as the Old Hawkesbury Hospital, 6 Christie Street, Windsor, as outlined in this report, as well as any new tenants that are secured. Two, the General Manager be authorised to approve minor amendments to the licence agreements if necessary. Three, authority be given for the licence agreements and any other relevant documentation in association with them to be executed under the seal of Council. Four , details of Council's resolution be conveyed to the proposed tenants together with the advice that Council is not and will not be bound by the terms of its resolution until such time as appropriate legal documentation to put such a resolution into effect has been agreed to and executed by all parties.

Voting in favour of the resolution were Councillors Ross, Rasmussen, Garrow, Reynolds, Wheeler, Lyons-Buckett, Kotlash, Zamprogno, Richards and Calvert. Sorry, and not present were Councillors Garrow, Councillor Conolly and Councillor Tree.

In regard to item 69, Councillor Conolly had an interest.

I declare a pecuniary interest. I work for an accounting firm in Windsor, which could be perceived as a competitor of Ashton Partners.

Councillor Garrow, if you're around, you can come back.

Whilst in closed session, Council resolved on the motion of Councillor Lyons-Buckett, seconded by Councillor Kotlash, that : one, Council agree to enter into a new lease with Ashton Partners Proprietary Limited for the property known as Reverend Turner Cottage, 360 George Street, Windsor, as outlined in the report. Two, authority be given for the lease and any other relevant documentation in association with it to be executed under seal of Council. Three, details of Council resolution be conveyed to the proposed lessee together with the advice that the Council will not be bound by the terms of its resolution until such time as appropriate legal documentation to put such a resolution into effect has been agreed to and executed by all parties.

Voting in favour of the resolution were Councillors Ross, Rasmussen, Reynolds, Wheeler, Lyons-Buckett, Kotlash, Zembrgno, Richards and Calvert. Not present were Councillors Garrow, Conolly and Tree.

Councillor Conolly, you can come back now.

In regard to Item 70, whilst in closed session, Council resolved on the motion of Councillor Rasmussen, seconded by Councillor Zembrgno, that: one, Council agree to enter into a new lease with James Monaghan and Jennifer Monaghan-Perez for the property known as Shop 3, Wilberforce Shopping Centre as outlined in the report. Two, authority be given for the lease and any other relevant documentation associated with the matter be executed under seal of Council. Three, details of Council's resolution be conveyed to the proposed lessees, together with the advice that Council is not and will not be bound by the terms of its resolution until such time as appropriate legal documentation puts such resolution into effect has been agreed to and executed by all parties.

Voting in favour of the resolution were Councillors Ross, Rasmussen, Garrow, Reynolds, Wheeler, Lyons-Buckett, Kotlash, Zembrgno, Conolly, Richards and Calvert. Not present was Councillor Tree. In regard to Item 71, whilst in closed session, Council resolved on the motion of Councillor Wheeler, seconded by Councillor Rasmussen, that: one, Council agree to enter into a new lease with Sai Chong Lao and Yen Sreg Tran for the property known as Shop 10, Wilberforce Shopping Centre as outlined in the report. Two, authority be given for the lease and any other relevant documentation associated with this matter be executed under seal of Council. Three, details of Council's resolution be conveyed to the proposed lessees, together with the advice that Council is not and will not be bound by the terms of its resolution until such time as appropriate legal documentation puts such resolution into effect has been agreed to and executed by all parties.

Voting in favour of the resolution was Councillor Ross, Rasmussen, Garrow, Reynolds, Wheeler, Lyons-Buckett, Kotlash, Zembrgno, Conolly, Richards and Calvert. Councillor Tree was not present.

Thank you, Mr. Mifsud. Before we close the meeting, I would like to thank everyone for their patience and their cooperation. I think we managed to get through this quite well, considering it was our first go. I want to thank the staff for all the effort they put in in setting up this room and setting up the YouTube and everything else. And the small problems we had, I think were quite small. Things went rather well, and I thank everyone for their input.

And I'd like to endorse— sorry, Mr.—

Yeah, go ahead. Oh

I'd just like to endorse those comments. And as I have said a number of times, I think webcasting is certainly the way to go, and hopefully we can do it a bit more often. It wasn't that painful, I don't think, was it? It

Wasn't

Painful for me at all.

Donna thought it was a little painful, and she doesn't want to do it again. She doesn't want to do it again.

Yeah, I agree. Thanks, Donna. Yeah.

Any further comments?

Have to do it again anyway.

Yeah.

Maybe it'd be easier if we're all on Zoom next time, though.

Yeah, that would be.

Okay, write that down. Any further comments, Councillor Ross?

Are you going to have any questions for the forthcoming meeting?

That's a good question, yes. Questions for the upcoming meeting. Do you have some? Yeah. Would you like to— Mr.

Comrie, would you like to explain that, please?

We've got an online provision for councillors to lodge their questions. I might just ask Charles. For the, or Laurie, for the details of those?

Yep. So questions should be lodged online 14 days before the next meeting, and they'll be put onto the business paper for the next meeting.

Okay. Did you all hear that? Questions can be lodged online 14 days before the next meeting, and then they'll be put into the business paper. They don't need to be brought up here tonight. Any other business? Otherwise I'll close the meeting. Thank you very much. Thanks. I'll close the meeting at what appears to be 9.50 or so.

It's pretty close.

9 45.