9 March 2021 - Ordinary

Good evening, everybody. Start by acknowledging the Darug and Darkinjung people as traditional custodians of the land of the Hawkesbury and pay respect to Elders past, present and emerging, and acknowledge all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Peoples of the country. And I hand over to the Acting General Manager.

Thanks, Mr Mayor. Members attending the meeting are advised that in the event of an emergency, you'll be asked to proceed in an orderly manner to the nearest exit following the guidance of our warden. We'd also like to advise that in accordance with Clause 5.18 of the Code of Meeting Practice, meetings of the Council are recorded. In the terms of the Privacy and Personal Information Protection Act, this may involve the recording of personal information provided at the time of the meeting. The recordings are made to assist staff in compiling the minutes of the meeting and to enable the podcasting of Council meetings. The provision of any information that is recorded is voluntary. If any person does not wish to be recorded, they should not address or request to address the meeting.

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Thank you. Thank you. Do we have any apologies? Councillor Rasmussen is an apology, and I think everybody else is here. Somebody want to move we accept that. Moved Councillor Zamprogno, seconded Councillor Wheeler. All those in favour? Against? Declared carried. Any declarations of interest? I've got a declaration on item 49 of pecuniary interest, which I'll read onto the table at the time. Any other declarations of interest? No. Okay. Does somebody want to move the minutes from the previous meeting? Moved Deputy Mayor, seconded Councillor Calvert. All those in favour? Against? Aye. The call carried.

Sorry. There are no items subject to public address tonight, so the first item is item 45, the Mayoral Minute.

So hopefully this is a fairly simple Mayoral Minute. I'll move this one. What we're asking for here is, since becoming Mayor, I've had a lot of feedback around the experience that people in the community have with Council. And what I'm looking here is to try and develop some data that we can actually track this, so it's not just always anecdotal, this feedback. We actually have some data tracking over time. And basically what I'm asking for here is for Council to endorse it as a concept, then come to a briefing session and throw around some of the statistics that we can easily produce without too much extra work that are meaningful in terms of tracking the experience that residents and ratepayers are having with Council when they're trying to interact with Council.

Council will then decide on a set of statistics that do that, and then we can publish those quarterly on Council's website. The idea being try and develop some accountability and transparency with our residents and show that we are focused on making it easier to deal with us and easier to do things in the Hawkesbury, and also have some actual data to rely on whenever we're trying to either make changes or, in other cases, demonstrating that we're already making improvement. So open for discussion

Councillor Kotlash.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. Yeah, look, I'm in favour of this. I think it's a great idea. I was a bit confused with point 3 though. It says the set of statistics be published quarterly on Council's website and be updated every three months.

I think it's— I've just been repeated twice, sorry. Yeah

No, I just wanted to know whether you were after something else there because I was a bit—

No,

Well just, so that's going to be brought to us and then we'll publish it every quarter.

Yeah, so the idea would be Council will endorse what those statistics are and then we'll continue to publish them quarterly.

Ah, that's okay. I just thought you might have been getting at something else I

Couldn't quite— No, sorry, thank you for that.

No, terrific idea. Really happy to support it. And if it makes our customer service and if it improves our systems, well, you know, and our transparency, I'm very glad for it to happen. Yeah,

Thanks. Councillor Richards.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. Just very quickly want to say that I wholeheartedly support the initiative that you are driving here. I think it's something that this council definitely needs to do, and I think holding that accountability and reporting that to the public is something that should have been done a long time ago. So I thank you for addressing it. I do think that our experience that our customers and our ratepayers essentially experience through council is important for us as elected members to be aware of, because we have very hardworking staff and, you know, we value our staff greatly, but there certainly are times that as councillors we get contacted, as in any job and role or any business out there, with a negative experience.

So I think that having proper formal statistics to be able to track that is the way to go. So you've got my support on this one, and I thank you for bringing it to the chamber.

Thank you. Councillor Zamprogno. Thank you, Mr Mayor. I also support this. I'd like to ask whether you'd be amenable to a change of wording in Recommendation 1 for this reason. In the first instance, with the way that this is currently phrased, the statistics that we would compile would not give us any basis of comparison, and then subsequent quarterly reports would only allow us to compare to our earlier performance in-house. I wonder whether it would be better to include wording that gets us to compare our customer service responsiveness to other councils and to objective best practice, so that we can work out whether we're doing as well as our neighbours, our peers, and provide more context for us to understand the statistics that staff will be compiling. I'd be, I'd welcome your thoughts.

Yeah, I'm not opposed to that as a concept. I'm just looking at the wording. I think it's probably broad enough to allow that. The reason it's been written in this way is because

I guess I'm mindful of the idea of this is not to create a whole lot of extra work. So trying to, I thought that a briefing session where everyone has some input into what they think is important might give us an opportunity to try and find some metrics that not only are meaningful but are also easy to pull out of a system. If there's, if we throw a third factor in there that, you know, there's also comparable statistics from another council or a benchmark available, happy with that as well.

Well, put it this way. I mean, because this will be an ongoing process, we could support the wording that you've advanced this evening, and then once we have some meaningful internal data, I would seek to have that compared to best practice or peer councils so that we can then understand them in that context. Thank you.

Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Look, I support the spirit of the Mayoral Minute. I'm a little bit concerned about some of the wording. You don't develop sets of statistics. That's actually data fraud. Statistics evolve out of the stuff that you collect. So I think you, I would urge you to consider a change of wording. What we're really asking for is customer service metrics and perhaps key performance indicators, rather than a set of statistics. We will get the set of statistics after the three-month data collection period. We don't begin with them. That's otherwise we could all make up our own statistics and we could just tell everybody that all was well, which clearly isn't the purpose of this. I would also be keen to see brought to that briefing some information about what's already available that we don't know about.

So I think some of our departments already collect statistics, and they do it either at random times or at particular intervals. So I know, for example, the library and gallery go through phases of collecting statistics, which I think they all hate, because it is just an extra burden on their normal day-to-day activity. I presume we've got—we've had customer service statistics come to us before. I don't know if that's a regular thing that's done, or if we did that as a particular, like a one-off thing. I hope it wasn't a one-off. But I suspect that because a lot of this stuff is operational, it's already happening, and it's not coming to us. And I think that's probably a big part of what this is about, is getting that data to come to us rather than to exist in isolation in particular departments and give us an overall picture.

So I'm willing to support this, but I would need to see a wording change first.

Thanks, Councillor Wheeler. I actually put this, when I originally drafted this, I actually had KPIs as the term I used as well. And it was pointed out to me when considered amongst the staff that a key performance indicator requires a set standard that you're trying to achieve, and you're measuring whether you're hitting that or not. And that might not be the case, and it probably doesn't mean the same thing as what we're trying to achieve here. I guess we'd be more interested in trends over time. Are we improving or not? Is the experience getting better or not? So I don't think that KPIs really works. I hear what you're saying. I don't think anyone would probably interpret that to say we're going to set statistics. We could say— I'm just trying to think of a word that would be better.

I would be happy with metrics.

Yeah. Yep. So it's aimed to a set of metrics be developed. Yeah. And certainly your second point about looking at what's already available, I absolutely agree. And that's why I thought a briefing would be better to try and, so rather than just council setting what we want, if there's something similar already being collected or already available out of a system, the staff can tell us at the briefing session. So, yeah, I agree. So, change that in point one, if we can change it as statistics to a set of metrics. And in point three. Yeah.

Yeah, and point two. Yep. And every point. Thank you. Deputy Mayor.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. Likewise, similar to what Councillor Wheeler just raised, I noticed that too. To develop a set of statistics was a novel idea. I think that being someone who has studied statistics, I did find that a little unusual. I think the thing we really would need to be setting as well is to set the objectives of what actual information that we want. So, because council, of course, is such a broad and diverse operation, I suppose, as Councillor Wheeler raised, we need to know what already— there's a set of statistics, our mandatory reporting statistics. We have to include certain statistics about various things into the integrated reporting framework. So there would be a number of statistics already available.

And I think that what we're probably looking... Looking for is to put the parameters around the information that we want to have to deliver to the community. So rather than us actually being involved in the, you know, the actual compilation or anything of the statistics, we're actually wanting to set, to develop a set of parameters or a set of metrics, as Councillor Wheeler has put forward, so that we get to see, you know, the various things that are being done within the different council operations. So I would think the first step, though, would be actually coming up with what the objective of the exercise is and how that sits within the existing reporting framework that we already have. So is this tailor made?

And I guess we would discuss all this, and I think that's a good idea to discuss it at a briefing, but is it to be in a format that the public understand and comprehend, or is it to be a more technical, statistical analysis of some sort? So I think that there does need to be quite a bit of work around it. I suspect it's actually to outline a set of parameters to deliver information to the public on how the council is travelling, rather than to just come up with a whole lot of statistics, which are meaningless because they have to be interpreted by someone who knows what they're doing, and that wouldn't be the 12 of us necessarily. That will have to come from within the organisation. So I'm reading what you've put to be something to deliver to the community of how we're tracking, rather than the technical side of statistical analysis.

Am I correct?

Yeah, so I think if I understand your question, I don't want to sort of, I don't think we need to overthink it. So we're looking for a set of measures that we're going to publish on our website each quarter, obviously for the public to be able to see how we're tracking in terms of things that they're interacting with us on. Yeah

So would that involve then some engagement with the community about what they actually wanted to know, or are we just going to decide what we want them to know?

Yeah, well, the minute before us is that we develop these at a briefing session. You can see in the background I've referenced in the community strategic plan the points that I think this helps to achieve. The idea is not to change any of the objectives of any area of council. It's just to be reporting in a more open and transparent way with the community so they can see that we are focused on their interactions with us, first and foremost, and developing measures that demonstrate that. So, you know, we do have a whole lot of customer service metrics, as someone mentioned, I think it might have been Councillor Wheeler mentioned that earlier, that sort of thing, but across the organisation.

Okay, so in other words, to uniform from each sort of sector to show how each sort of area is performing, because we've done the customer service satisfaction surveys and things like that. Before, and there would be a record of all that various interaction and so on. So I'm gathering you mean beyond that sort of thing, and to actually be going, you know, to be looking customer service, so engagement with customers. I think there's been surveys done on that, and cultural services. I think Councillor Wheeler mentioned the library. With planning and so on, is this around like DA applications, how many, and so we have all that on the internet. But I gather you're working to get a more comprehensive or simplified, and yet comprehensive, information to the public.

So, for example, how many DAs were assessed? When a DA is delayed, you know, what might be the reason of that or what might not? Is that the sort of thing you mean?

Yeah, I think those are all good examples of the sort of thing that Council might decide it wants to see. And I think, as you indicated, at the moment there's all sorts of statistics all over place if you want to go digging for them. The idea is to bring something together that's around things that a common community member or ratepayer might be experiencing with Council, and bringing it together to show that we're focused on that and that we're either improving or we're not, and that we're being open about it either way.

Okay. All right. Thank you.

Councillor Ross.

Thank you, Mr Mayor. You mentioned earlier through the course of discussion,

Pardon me

That you envisaged the Council staff to provide information in regard to the metrics which they already collect. I believe that that is going to be of assistance, but I also think that that element is not being covered in the three points which you raised. And I would hope that the briefing session would be promulgated after the council officers

Have

Indeed defined the metrics which are already being collected, so that that will enable some understanding of what might be achieved with little extra effort, shall I say. Thank you.

Thanks, Councillor Ross. Any further discussion?

Councillor Reynolds, did you— I've just sort of had an indication that you might be trying to raise your hand and not be able to.

Yes, thanks, Mr. Mayor. A few technical issues here. Can you hear me okay? I was going to say your audio is much better, so that's good. Yeah, I have audio but no little hand to raise. So anyway, that's no problem. I support the intent and the

Purpose behind the mayoral minute, and I must say I agree with Nathan, or Councillor Zamprogno, about having a comparison between the performance of council in relation to customer service compared to other councils and other LGAs near to us. I think that there has been some criticism of The planning department, I know that some of that criticism has been driven by people with compliance issues, and I think that if we were to receive included in the data that we receive is, for example, just the basics when it comes to planning, like the number of DAs, time taken to process, number of outstanding DAs, non-compliant structures, etc. I think that, you know, that there's been a bit of a—probably getting off topic—but a bit of a headhunting job done in the planning department, and I think that this is a good way to bring all this out into the light.

But it just can't really float by itself on its own raft of numbers. It needs to be compared to the work and the effort of other councils, and I would like to see that as part of the final outcome after we've been through the briefing. But I do think that this is a good idea. It's surprising that it's, you know, coming out, you know, a few months before the election after a five-month term. But I do support it, and I hope everybody will support it as too. Thank you.

Thanks, Councillor Reynolds. No further discussion? Yes,

Please, Mr Mayor

Oh, sorry, Councillor Wheeler.

Sorry, I've just realised now that I can actually see the change to the minute. Point three is probably the only place where set of statistics is useful, but perhaps it might be better to just say the information be published quarterly on Council's website. No one wants to look at the same set of metrics over and over. They're not going to have any information in them. So I think point three is probably the place where set of metrics doesn't work.

Yes. I don't know that anyone else would have been confused, but I think we can change that. So we'll just say the information be published quarterly.

Sorry, it should be the village.

Okay, so right of reply not necessary. So I'll put the motion. All those in favour, please raise your hand. Favour: Councillor Conolly, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Garrow, Councillor Reynolds, Councillor Kotlash, Councillor Ross, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Richards, Councillor Tree. Councillor Rasmussen was absent for the vote. We declare it carried.

Somebody want to move that we go into confidential? Moved, Councillor Zamprogno, seconded by Councillor Calvert. All those in favour? Declared carried.

We're back in live session, so I hand over to the Acting General Manager. Thanks, Mr Mayor. In regard to Item 46, whilst in closed session, Council resolved on the motion of Councillor Richards, seconded by Councillor Zamprogno, that the information regarding the settlement of a workers' compensation claim, as detailed in the report, be noted. Voting in favour of the recommendation were Councillors Ross, Garrow, Reynolds, Wheeler, Lyons-Buckett, Kotlash, Calvert, Zamprogno, Tree, Richards and Conolly. Councillor Rasmussen was not present. In regard to Item 47, whilst in closed session, Council resolved on the motion of Councillor Zamprogno, seconded by Councillor Wheeler, that one, Council proceed to publicly exhibit and notify the proposed lease to The Trust Company (Australia) Limited for part of Holland's Paddock, located at 50 The Terrace, Windsor, as outlined in the report, in accordance with sections 47 and 47A of the Local Government Act 1993.

Two, at the expiration of the public notification period in part one above, the following action be taken: A, should any submissions be received regarding the proposed lease to The Trust Company (Australia) Limited for part of Holland's Paddock, located at 50 The Terrace, Windsor, a further report be submitted to Council; or B, one, should no submissions be received, Council enter into a new lease with The Trust Company (Australia) Limited for part of Holland's Paddock, located at Holland's Paddock, 50 The Terrace, Windsor, as outlined in the report. Two, authority be given for any documentation associated with the matter to be executed under seal of Council. Three, details of Council's resolution be conveyed to the proposed lessee together with the advice that Council is not and will not be bound by the terms of its resolution until such time as appropriate legal documentation to put such resolution into effect has been agreed to and executed by all parties.

Voting in favour of the resolution was Councillor Ross, Garrow, Reynolds, Wheeler, Lyons-Buckett, Kotlash, Calvert, Zamprogno, Tree, Richards and Conolly. Councillor Rasmussen was not present. In regard to item 48, whilst in closed session, Council resolved on the motion of Councillor Kotlash, seconded by Councillor Zamprogno, that one, Council agree to enter into a new lease with Urban City Consulting Pty Ltd. In regard to the Johnson Wing for Christie Street, Windsor, as outlined in the report, two, authority be given for any documentation in association with this matter to be executed under the seal of Council, three, details of Council resolution be conveyed to the lessee, together with the advice that Council will not be bound by the terms of its resolution until such time as appropriate legal documentation to put such resolution into effect has been agreed to and executed by all parties.

Voting in favour of the resolution

Were Councillors Ross, Garrow, Reynolds, Wheeler, Lyons-Buckett, Kotlash, Calvert, Zamprogno, Tree, Richards and Conolly. Councillor Rasmussen was not present. In regard to item 49— oh,

Sorry, to declare an interest in item 49, I declared a pecuniary interest in that item on the basis that the current tenant of the site, I act for them as the accountant and tax agent.

Whilst in closed session, Council resolved on the motion of Councillor Kotlash, seconded by Councillor Zamprogno, that one, Council agree to enter into a lease with Brett and Tenya Ram, trading as Brettenya Catering, for the property known as the Deerubbin Centre Cafe, as outlined in the report. Two, in conjunction with part one above, Council agree to surrender the current lease with Amos Leighton, trading as Evergreen Cafe, for the property known as Deerubbin Centre Cafe, as outlined in the report. Three, authority be given for the surrender of lease and the new lease, and any other relevant documentation in association with this matter to be executed under the seal of Council. Four, details of Council's resolution be conveyed to the current and proposed lessees, together with the advice that Council is not and will not be bound by the terms of its resolution until such time as appropriate legal documentation to put such resolution into effect has been agreed to and executed by all parties.

Voting in favour of the resolution were Councillors Garrow, Reynolds, Wheeler, Lyons-Buckett, Kotlash, Calvert, Zamprogno, Tree and Richards. Voting against the resolution was Councillor Ross. Councillors Rasmussen and Councillor Conolly were not present.

Thank

You , Acting General Manager. There being no further business, I would declare the meeting closed.

Mr Mayor, can I seek your indulgence for no more than 10 seconds?

Sure.

A procedural

Motion, is it?

Not a procedural motion. It's merely to take the opportunity to wish our Mayor a happy birthday, and to inform absent colleagues that are coming in by Zoom is that there will be a cake presented with the esteem of your colleagues and eaten in their absence. Thank you. We'll declare the meeting closed. And

No expense spared, by the look of it.

Declare the meeting closed at 7.45. Thank you.