9 July 2024 - Ordinary

We are here in the gallery tonight for their presence and also those who are viewing our meeting online. Now we do have, I'm looking around the room, we have one vacant chair and I do have a request to attend by audio visual link for the council meeting of the 9th of July 2024. This request is from Councillor Kotlash, who is online. The General Manager received from Councillor Kotlash a written request to attend tonight's ordinary meeting by audio visual link as she is unable to attend the meeting in person. Councillor Kotlash has been admitted to the meeting and is unable to participate until Council decides by resolution whether to accept her request. Does someone want to move that Councillor Kotlash be permitted to attend the ordinary meeting on 9th of July 2024 by audio visual link?

Thank you, Deputy Mayor. Seconded, Councillor Reardon. All those in favour, please raise your hand. That is carried unanimously. Thank you, Councillors.

Any declarations

Of interest, Councillors? Councillor Wheeler. Thanks, Madam Mayor. I have a pecuniary interest in item 11.1.2.

Thank you, Councillor. Any other declarations? Councillor

Lyons-Buckett. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Item 10.3.1, I have a less than significant non-pecuniary interest.

Thank you, Councillor.

And I will declare a less than significant non-pecuniary interest in item 12.1.2.

Confirmation of the minutes from the last meeting. Do I have someone move that way? Councillor Reardon, seconded. Councillor Sheather. All those in favour, please raise your hand. In favour are Councillor Reardon, Councillor Veigel, Councillor Sheather, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Dogramaci, Councillor Durick, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor McMahon, Councillor Kotlash. I declare the item carried.

Item up tonight is agenda item subject to public address. We have one registered speaker tonight on item 12.1.2, notice of motion 2, recognition and thank you, Superintendent Karen Hodges, AFSM, New South Wales Rural Fire Service. Our registered speaker is Craig Burley. If you'd like to please come up to the speaker's podium here. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you, Mayor and the other Councillors, for the opportunity tonight to address, as what's for myself something of mixed emotions, the moving on of Karen Hodges, our fire control officer that has been in the service of the Hawkesbury for many, many years. And in particular, Mayor, as long as it's not out of order, but Councillor Wheeler for putting forward the notice of motion that Council formally recognise Karen's devoted service to the Hawkesbury District and more so the greater area of New South Wales. Karen's moving on to be the Deputy Commissioner, Deputy Chief Officer for Southeast Region of Queensland, and I tried to research before coming in this evening where that extended to, but I know Queensland's a pretty enormous place.

So I can only imagine that the area of operations that Karen will have jurisdiction over will be substantial. But not that it hasn't been substantial. The Hawkesbury Shire is an enormous patch of vegetation. An infrastructure, rural and residential dwellings, of which Karen ultimately has had the responsibility for maintaining safety of for a large proportion of the last 36 years in her service with the Rural Fire Service. She first joined the Rural Fire Service a little bit by default as being employed as a council typing officer, and at that time was assigned to assist Bill Roger, the fire control officer at the still Hawkesbury Fire Control Centre, but we're working on that, Will, aren't we?

Back in 1988, much a similar time as when I joined the Rural Fire Service in a full-time manner, as well as a volunteer. But Karen was never going to be the typist. She moved very quickly to be, in 1990, appointed as the Deputy Fire Control Officer for the Hawkesbury Rural Fire District, youngest ever person to have that role, and the very first female to be appointed in such a responsible position as well. Moving then to be appointed as the Fire Control Officer in total command for Hawkesbury Rural Fire District in 1999, again the very first female to be appointed to that role, and therefore had the ultimate responsibility for the day-to-day operations and responsibility of 1,800 members, the infrastructure, the goods that go with running a Rural Fire Service are not small, and during her tenure has increased exponentially the roles and responsibilities that a Rural Fire Service have been enormously increasing over the time of her appointment.

She's been appointed a Section 44 Incident Controller on 36 times, which is the most appointments of any Incident Controller in New South Wales Rural Fire Service history. And that doesn't happen by chance. The declarations by appointment of delegated authority for the Commissioner, and the Commissioner does not hand that delegation out without lightly. They give it due cause and due consideration before handing down that responsibility. And it's only because Karen's ability to perform those roles that she was given those tasks on so many occasions. But then there is the untold number of fires on a day-to-day basis that ultimately the brigade's go to, but in the long run becomes Karen's responsibility as well.

I tried to, in my add up the number of acres that Karen has had responsibility for managing, and I noted tonight here we have an amendment with numerous fires, many of which were over 100,000 hectares, but ultimately culminated in the Gospers Mountain fire, where Karen had the responsibility for, I think it was six or seven local government areas, were ultimately under her purview. And to undertake that mammoth task in the very exemplary manner that she did can only get the commendation from us all for sure.

She's had the other challenge of coming through, and hopefully we've gone through the phase of being females and males, but she did come through that phase in our generations where to be a female and pushing through that glass ceiling was a challenge, but she did it with ultimate esteem , both to the females, but also to the males. She's earned the responsibility of firefighters. Completely across the state, and she has their respect, and she has shown the dedication not just to the firefighters and the family of firefighters, but the greater community of New South Wales in a manner which not many could probably adhere to. On a day-to-day basis, she's probably attended more births, deaths and marriages in one way, and for a few of us, a few divorces as well, and has shown the empathy that only a true friend can.

And it certainly shows the nature of the person that we've had as being our leader during that time. She's going to be sorely missed for sure, but we do wish her every success. There's a big part of me, and I'm sure other members that don't want to see Karen go. We would love to see her stay. We'd always said on a personal level, when she retires, I'll retire, but neither of us are quite at that level yet. But in saying that, I'd love her to stay. I certainly, and I hope that the councillors all certainly wish her all the very best. She will be a success. She's an achiever. There's no doubt of that.

But just in summary then, I would urge that all councillors support the notice of motion that was up tonight to thank Karen for her service. And , yeah, nothing further to say.

That was lovely. Thank you so much. I'll just see, not that there should be any questions, but any questions from councillors at this point? No, thank you. I think you summed that up wonderfully. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. Councillor, oh, I just need to read out my declaration, councillors, before we go into debate. My declaration on this item is less than significant non-pecuniary. This matter discusses the RFS, and I am a member of the Hawkesbury Communications Rural Fire Service Brigade, therefore no pecuniary interest. Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Madam Mayor. The notice of motion is fairly self— I'll second that, Madam Mayor. Thanks. Sorry. The notice of motion is quite self-explanatory. I think many of us, as Craig said, are really sad to see Karen go, but really pleased that she's moving on to what is a newly created role in a newly created organisation. It's a fantastic opportunity for someone who has been a leader since really her very first move across from Council's typing pool to— it's a fairly meteoric rise, I think, to, as we've heard, one of the most respected operators in the New South Wales RFS. I want to thank the RFS members who helped me prepare this notice of motion. It's not often, I think, when you go to write something like this and people are clamouring to give you their positive opinions about people.

And I will note that there's an additional section to table, which is the list of Section 44 declarations that Superintendent Hodges has been the incident controller on, and it's my fault that they are not a part of the business paper because I didn't get them to the staff fast enough, unfortunately. This is a really tough job, and I think, you know, it's one of those jobs where everybody thinks they would have known what to do in the circumstances. It's very high stress, it's high stakes, and there are very high expectations. Karen is known, though, for those of us, particularly those of us who have worked in fire control itself, as someone who approaches this job with both skill but humour and frankness.

Karen is incredibly blunt. If you need an attitude adjustment, Karen will cheerfully give it to you. But as, and as you've heard, and this came up time and again, Karen's enormous capacity for empathy. And she, when you become part of the RFS family, and I understand this now as the mother of someone who has become really heavily involved in the RFS, there’s a— people bring all of themselves to the RFS, and that includes their bad times as well. And Karen has had an enormous capacity to see people through that. It has really been a pioneering role for a woman, particularly in the Hawkesbury RFS. It's very much a family organisation, and Karen has been the most extraordinary matriarch of it.

She will be greatly missed. It is the end of an era, and I think it's very rare for a woman as young as Karen, who's about my age, I will point out, to have so comprehensively shaped an organisation and its culture that her moving on is thought of as the end of an era. But we have more than three decades of service in this organisation from Karen. Karen, I have to note, Craig, that Karen would have loved that you got a quip in about fire control. I'm sure she'll enjoy that. This has been really devoted service.

The tenacity and exhaustion that I witnessed on my first campaign, which was Gospers Mountain, and I hadn't even signed up properly as a member at that stage, and neither had you, Madam Mayor . People came in, and I remember Craig coming in just covered in dirt and soot and sweat and just utterly exhausted. And yet this is an organisation under Karen's leadership where people backed up after eight hours' sleep, a feed and a shower, and did it time and time again for five months. It really was extraordinary. That's the organisation that Karen has created for people. There were some lovely comments about Karen, and I've included many of those in the background, particularly that things like she's known for her personal touch.

Not many FCOs would send flowers for births or grieving relatives. It's that personal touch we'll miss the most. Karen isn't just an FCO. She's a mentor and a friend. Someone commented on her amazing ability to manage the accounts and squeeze blood from the stone. Her ability to cajole people into doing things for her is extraordinary. There's a term voluntold that is used frequently. She's been an amazing leader, constant and reassuring. There were also a number of people who made comments about her capacity as a woman to lead in what has been up till now very much a man's organisation, and repeated comments about her capacity to make tough calls under pressure. And as community leaders, I think that's something that we can all learn from.

I'll read out the comments of one of the group officers. The competent, dedicated volunteer firefighting force that Hawkesbury is today is a testament to Karen's commitment, both during and after work hours, for the conduct of firefighting and the welfare of the district's crews. And I think that shows, that speaks to the level of responsibility that this job entails. Karen will be greatly missed. She will be very hard to replace. One of the comments I got from someone was, I hope we don't get someone shit, and I think, you know, that's a genuine fear across the organisation, because Karen has been this constant for a whole generation of firefighters, and that is really an extraordinary thing.

Thanks.

Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Zamprogno.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I can only agree with Councillor Wheeler's motion and her sentiment. I've known Karen for over 33 years when I arrived at fire control to volunteer in the communications group for a time when I was still a teenager. And even then, it was clear that she was a rising star. And in the 33 years that I've known her, she has never been anything less, on all occasions, than a complete diplomatist. A complete professional, a completely or seemingly unflappable person, and the professionalism that she's brought to her role has been very much to our advantage in some exceedingly trying times. And I wish her every success in her future endeavours.

Councillor Lyons-Buckett . Thank you, Madam Mayor. And similarly, I'd just like to echo what Mr Burley and Councillor Wheeler and Councillor Zamprogno have said. Karen was a trailblazer who's very widely and highly respected, not just in this area but I'm sure across the whole nation. She's always been extremely approachable and a very competent officer, and I think that's highly recognised as well. So our loss is Queensland's gain, well and truly, and she'll be missed leaving really big shoes to fill. But hopefully she'll come back for the opening of the new headquarters. That would be nice, for her to come back and grace us with her presence. I'd just like to add my thanks for her service, her dedication and her mentorship and guidance to many other volunteers, but also to many other community members.

She was also not just confined to the RFS; she would often be helping people in other ways. So I sincerely wish her all the best with this new venture. I'm sure she'll adequately deal with whatever new challenges come her way, and I hope we'll see her back in the Hawkesbury from time to time.

Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Sheather.

Thanks, Madam Mayor. I've been lucky enough to know Karen since she started out there all that time ago. And

We've got a list of the fires, the major fires that she had control of. God knows how many other ones there were, a lot. And over the years I've had a lot to do with different brigades around the city. And during the worst times, and not so bad times, I'd never heard any of the fire captains speak ill, or—and there surely must have been some frustrations during those times. But there was a team that worked together really well, and Karen led that team. I wish her all the best in her endeavours in Queensland.

With what Craig said about the role she's played and the respect that she has throughout the brigade communities, I doubt there'd be any doubt at all that she can't do the job. And it's all at our loss. So, Madam Mayor, I wish her all the best.

Thank you, Councillor. Anyone else wishing to speak?

If I may, Madam Mayor.

Thank you, Councillor Veigel.

One of the great joys about being elected in this place is you meet some wonderful and extraordinary people. Over the last number of years, as we all know, we caught up with the Long Service Leave Awards for the RFS, and it was many people to get through for a long, long time, and I think we were doing two or three each year. And I sat back in the first few there being a guest there, and I thought— Karen was one of these leaders that you could see how she presented those awards, which has been mentioned by others and the councillors, with great empathy and, dare I say, love to the people. She was more under her management, dare I say. I too wish her all the best going to Queensland. It's certainly our loss and Queensland's gain, and dare I say they probably need all the help they can get in some areas in Queensland.

And Karen will just add to that. So from me, thank you. Thank you to the RFS, and her legacy will be sorely missed.

Thank you, Councillor. Anybody else? Deputy Mayor.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I concur with everything that's been said. I just wanted to add that during the Gospers Mountain fire, I was so taken by the way that Karen could make decisions. I was out there a few times, and she was making decisions at the rate of one every 30 seconds, saying, You do this, you do that, sending this person there, and it was just amazing. And those decisions were based on her knowledge not only of the RFS but of the topography that she was dealing with and the services that were available. And so from that point of view, she will be sorely missed, but I don't know whether anyone else can fill those shoes. It'll take years of experience to get to where she was. Thank you.

Thank you, Deputy Mayor. Anyone else wishing to speak? Well, as the Mayor of Hawkesbury, I will just add my final remarks, if that is everybody who's had their turn to speak, and just to, on behalf of Hawkesbury City Council, wish Karen very well on her new ventures in Queensland. I can hear by the remarks tonight she's certainly touched the lives of many over decades of service in the Hawkesbury area. And as Mr Burley said, I'm sure all the group captains in the Hawkesbury have learnt a lot off Karen, and those lessons will stay with them for the rest of their lives. And it has been a pleasure to get to know Karen, to view her leadership style. Again during Section 44, it sounds like we all sort of had a bit to play in that.

When I contacted her on the mobile and said, What can I do? she said, Just turn up. I know I can trust you. I'm going to throw you in there. And so hence now why I am a member, as with Councillor Wheeler, of the communications brigade. It was such a learning curve, but to sit there and watch her as the leader making decisions that are life and death decisions, they really are. Decisions that affect not just life and death, but people's property. And where she is sending volunteers out in the appliances, it's amazing to see the pressure she must be under, although she doesn't show it. Sometimes you can hear it, but she certainly acts with a cool head. And there are many decisions, just in my short time of viewing her, where I know that that would have been an exceptionally challenging decision to make, yet she's had to make them in the best interests of the Hawkesbury and the Hawkesbury community.

So I'll be attending her farewell this weekend on behalf of Hawkesbury City Council. I will, if possible, say a few remarks as the leader of our community to our leader of the RFS, who has served us so brilliantly and so well over so many decades in the Hawkesbury. So I do farewell Karen, wish her all the very best, but she will sorely be missed. If no other councillors wish to speak, right of reply, Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Madam Mayor, and thank you all for your comments for Karen. I think it's one of those things. It's an organisation that is spread across the LGA. I've heard that some people are reticent to attend her farewell dinner because they're too sad at Karen moving on. This is, you know, it's one of those awful catch-22s where you want to pay your respects to someone, but you really would rather they stayed. I think what we've heard tonight is just the enormous respect in which Karen is held. So I think there's nothing really left but for Council to note her outstanding contribution, that she has been a trailblazer, that she has had the care and responsibility for the protection of the Hawkesbury for more than three decades. We are deeply grateful and convey both that gratitude and our utmost respect for her leadership and her service to the Hawkesbury community. Thanks.

Thank you, Councillor. All those in favour, please raise your hand. In favour, Councillor Reardon, Councillor Veigel, Councillor Sheather, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Dogramaci, Councillor Djuric, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Zemprogno, Councillor McMahon, Councillor Kotlash. I declare the item carried.

The next items on the agenda are those items on block. The items to be moved on block are 10.2.2, 10.4.2, 11.1.1, 11.1.3, 11.1.4 and 11.1.5. Do I have someone wishing to move that way? Councillor Veigel, seconded Councillor Lyons-Buckett. All in favour, please raise your hand. Councillor Reardon, Councillor Veigel, Councillor Sheather, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Dogramaci, Councillor Djuric, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor McMahon, Councillor Kotlash. I declare the items on block carried.

The next item on the agenda is 10.2.1, by-election for council representative on the Hawkesbury River County Council. Do I have someone wishing to move anything, please? Councillor Conolly.

I move that we don't fill the vacancy.

Thank you, Councillor. Seconded by Councillor Wheeler. Councillor Conolly.

I think fairly straightforward. I know the report says we should fill the vacancy, but we've got, I think the HRCC's got one meeting left. We've got two months before a general election. I think it would be wasteful of everyone's time and ratepayers' money for us to go and elect someone to go and sit on that council for one meeting. So I prefer we didn't fill it, let the new council deal with it.

Thank you, Councillor. Anyone else wishing to speak? Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Madam Mayor. Again, I think it's a shame that this has happened so close to the end of term. It makes it incredibly difficult, I think, for the incoming councillor to get across all the info to be able to vote with any real understanding of the organisation. When Hawkesbury River County Council met last month, the council didn't feel the need for another councillor or a by-election, but it doesn't appear from what I could see today that there's a provision in the Act or regulation to maintain the vacancy. I don't know if that's correct, so I'll be looking for the advice of the staff. If that is the case, if it is the case that we have to fill that vacancy, and again, I don't feel it's necessary, I think the best option would be to, if they're willing, to put either Councillor Sheather or Councillor Zamprogno into the role.

They've both worked on the Hawkesbury River County Council in the past and will probably be most likely to get across the information before we get to what is effectively the last meeting and the end of term report. Thanks.

Thank you, Councillor. Anyone else wishing to speak? Just a question, Madam Mayor.

I think, Councillor Wheels, the other delegate on it, and will you be attending the last—there's only one meeting to go, is there? And you'll be attending?

I intend to.

Anyone else wishing to speak? Right of reply, Councillor Conolly? Not necessary. All those in favour, please raise your hand.

Madam Mayor, there was a question there of staff about whether the vacancy could be held over or must be filled. I'd like to hear staff on that.

Thank you, General Manager. Thank you through you, Madam Mayor. To answer the question of must the vacancy be filled, the answer is no. The obligation set out under the regulations is that a by-election is required to be held. The reality, however, of the consequence of Council not putting forward its delegate or its member or its councillor to the County Council is that the ramifications of it are virtually nil from that. So it would be in Council's hands as to whether it wishes to nominate a person at this point.

Thank you, General Manager. With no further remarks, right of reply, Councillor Conolly, not necessary. All those in favour, please raise your hand. In favour, Councillor Reardon, Councillor Veigel, Councillor Sheather, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Dogramaci, Councillor Djuric, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Wheeler, Councillor McMahon, Councillor Kotlash. Those against? Councillor Zamprogno. I declare the item carried.

The next item is item 10.3.1, 23/24 Community Sponsorship Program Round 3, Councillor Lyons-Buckett. Would you like to read your interest? Thank you, Madam Mayor.

I have a less than significant non-pecuniary interest in 10.3.1. I'm on the board of an affiliated organisation to one of the applicant organisations, and the reason for no further action is that it's not relevant to any of the activities that I'm involved in.

Thank you, Councillor. Do I have someone wishing to move the recommendation? Councillor Conolly, seconded Councillor Sheather. Councillor Conolly.

That's all right, happy to move the recommendation.

Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak?

No? Right of reply? Not necessary. Oh, sorry, Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Madam Mayor. Look, I can't support this in its current form, so I'm speaking against the motion.

I've got real difficulty with this item and how we're apportioning this money. I know that we've got the names of the children involved in the confidential section, but there isn't any information about who they are, where they go to school, how they're representing the Hawkesbury. So we're basically being asked to rubber stamp something that we don't have the information about.

And when I look at the scoring for some of the other items and who we're not funding relative to who we are funding, and I understand that we are going to revise the criteria in the next 12 months, but this doesn't seem to be doing the job of sponsoring community activities, frankly. We're sponsoring a couple of— Recreational activities, and yet we have real areas of community need where we've either refused sponsorship or we've determined that, based on some idea of a partial allocation of funding, not guaranteeing that the project goes ahead, we've not even filled in the matrix. When I look at something like the sponsorship of the Animal Welfare League's desexing program, which has been refused, and I put in the numbers that I think are reasonable, for example, community leadership and resilience, surely getting on top of a cat plague helps with community resilience and is a sign of community leadership.

The idea that it gets no points for social inclusion and yet it specifically targets low-income families and healthcare card holders, that's inclusion. It's not thought to be very consistent with the CSP. I would beg to differ. I think it's highly consistent with the CSP. It has no points for sustainability and lowering ecological footprint. I tell you what, just one stray cat will certainly contribute to a lack of sustainability and wildlife destruction .

When I score the Animal Welfare League, I get between 30 and 35 points, depending on how generous I am, and yet they're given a score of 18 and bumped off completely. We have a wildlife organisation and another organisation that's providing effectively weekend respite for kids from families at risk of DV, and they get nothing. I can see that getting carp out of the river is a grand idea, but that's a sport and recreation. This is not sport and recreation funding. This is community sponsorship, and I'm not sure where the community sits in our sponsorship matrix. So I can't support this. I don't think it's doing what it says on the tin.

Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Lyons-Buckett.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I did send an email today with some questions about the section that's in confidential, but I did wonder why is it necessary to have the names in confidential if these are people representing at a state and national level? Surely that's public knowledge. Director of City

Planning. Thank you, through you , Madam Mayor. The names are placed into confidential to align with the Child Safe Standards to which Council is now operating under, in

Accordance with all other local governments that are subject to that legislation. Okay, thank you. That's a little unfortunate because we can't really congratulate people then who are representing their community. I did have similar concerns around— oh, sorry, another question. Does the same person do all of the assessment? Director of City Planning. Yeah, thank you. Through you, Madam Mayor. They're actually undertaken by a number of staff in the Planning and Partnerships team. Okay,

Thank you, because my concern was also consistency around that. I'm really surprised that the RFS would have to apply to Council for a community sponsorship to get device to open their doors safely.

I think that's a really bad reflection somewhere along the line, not necessarily on us, but I would hope that the RFS, if they have a requirement around safety, that they have some avenue where they can secure whatever is needed. With regard to the groups that didn't get the funding, I'm pleased to see that there's been feedback given so that they can be worked with to improve their submissions, I guess. But I'm just wondering, when someone like that, so for example, I was going to mention Mountains for Wildlife, when we have somebody come in who wants to do a project like that and we have perhaps got an existing motion, so for example, some time ago I had a notice of motion which was agreed upon around habitat pods, which seems to align very closely with what they are doing, I'm just wondering, does anybody sort of step out of the box and decide to link something like that, that we have an outstanding resolution for, and something that a community group is applying for sponsorship for?

Director of City Planning. Yeah,

Thank you. Through you, Madam Mayor. Look, whilst I can't speak to that particular notice of motion with any certainty, the team are very much tuned to both Council decisions and other activities that are broadly being delivered across the community outside of Council and with other groups. Typically, a core function of that branch is really around facilitating partnerships, so that's something that they would endeavour to do. But with regards to that specific item, I can't guarantee with any certainty.

Thank you. I think that would be a really good way to somehow move beyond the things that we're impeded of doing due to funding, even though they obviously haven't got a lot of funds, but it would be really great to see some of these groups that come forward with specific ideas if we could tap in and maybe together somehow work in the future to get some things achieved around that. I'll raise the other things I have to say in confidential, thank you.

Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Sheather. Yeah,

Thanks, Madam Mayor. I'll just touch on the comment that Councillor Wheeler made in relation to the participation category. The five applicants, they are all involved in sport. They were the only applicants, by the way. But in the past... Going back a couple of years ago, the Sports Council would nominate $150 for any single individual, and through discussions with the staff it was felt that there could be doubling up and that sort of stuff with Council, and so it was sort of moved on to Council. So there might be recommendations for individuals to come to Council in this regard, but that's how that come about. But participation category doesn't necessarily relate that I'm aware of only to sports people. In relation to the McDonald Valley Sports and Recreation Association Incorporated,

About the only thing they've got up there is a tennis court. There's not much as in orchards, but one of the things they do have is a carp problem in the common, which is a problem in a lot of our major rivers. And to deplete that carp from that area, once a year they have a fishing competition, which is very well supported. So while the people are there enjoy a campout and fishing over the weekend, the whole idea of the carp comp is to deplete the carp within that swamp. So, and it is a community thing, there's a lot of people turn up. It's all voluntary stuff. The residents of McDonald, they get together to accommodate the people who come fishing for the weekend, and it's usually a very well attended and great weekend.

So when it comes to community.. . An inclusiveness and all that sort of stuff. There's not too many better projects you get where you get a community involved with people outside that create such a benefit, and it's an environmental benefit. Carp in creeks and rivers, it's not good value. So thanks, Madam Mayor.

Thank you, Councillor. Councillors, I will just remind you the item in confidential is not to make a decision. It's an attachment to this item. If you wanted to discuss it now before we make a decision, I'm happy to go into confidential now,

Just to let you know we're not deciding in confidential.

Okay, Madam Mayor, I would be happy to do that, or alternatively, I would be happy to see the recommendation done in the sections of the allocated funding, like one, the participation versus the other bit.

So would you like to go into confidential now? Yes, please, Madam Mayor. The only question I have to staff then is, we will need mics on for Councillor Kotlash, but I think that still means people in the foyer can hear. No, they can't. No, thank you. Okay. Sorry to our attendees in the gallery. We will have to go into confidential just to have a discussion before we make a decision.

I'll just need a motion from Councillors to suspend standing orders to go into confidential. Councillor Reardon, seconded Councillor Veigel. All those in favour? Can I speak to

The motion very briefly?

We've just got a motion to go into confidential. Okay. Thank you, Councillor. Those moving into confidential, please raise your hand. Those in favour, Councillor Reardon, Councillor Veigel, Councillor Sheather, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Dogramaci, Councillor Djuric, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor McMahon, Councillor Kotlash, against Councillor Conolly. I'll just confirm we are in confidential, councillors, just a moment.

Thank you, everybody. We are now resuming open session for item 10.3.1 after consideration of some portions of this item in confidential. Do I have anyone else wishing to speak on the matter?

Councillor

Zamprogno. I propose my amendment. My amendment is that we accept the dispersal of funding per the recommendation, with the exception of allocating funding to the Animal Welfare League and eliminating the funding from the lowest scored entity on the list, which would happen to be Richmond Community Services, unless that choice would fail to yield a majority in the chamber.

Is that an amendment or a foreshadowed amendment? Well

That's my amendment.

That's an amendment, if somebody

Will second it.

Do I have someone wishing to second the amendment, please?

If somebody wants to nominate a different organisation.

Just one moment, Councillor Zamprogno, I just have a question from staff. Just one moment.

Councillor Zamprogno, just need to be clear that your amendment is giving the Animal Welfare League the amount of money that was allocated to Richmond Community Services of $1,119.10 and not the $3,000 they requested. Thank you, Councillor. Do I have someone wishing to second the amendment?

No, no seconder. The amendment fails. The motion is still as per the recommendation in the business paper. Anyone else wishing to speak? Right of reply, Council— oh, sorry. Yep, Councillor

Sheather. In confidence, we said that we might readdress the policy. Is that happening, or is it going to happen?

I think that's something to happen post this debate tonight, but I will just check with staff if that will be visited. Yep, thank you. Director of City Planning. Yeah,

Thank you through you, Madam Mayor. Yes, it's staff's intention to review the policy in the calendar year of 2025.

Thanks, Madam Mayor. Would there be a briefing about that prior? So Councillors can make comment, because obviously there's some views that staff might want to be aware of.

Yes, absolutely.

Thank you.

No other speakers. Right of reply, Councillor Conolly.

I haven't spoken yet, so if my right of reply introduces new information, hopefully that's okay. I was just going to say that there's a few things that have been discussed, and I think, just to put on the record some things that I think we need to fix in our policy. It's my view that public school PNCs, RFS brigades, should not be eligible to apply for funding under the Community Sponsorship Funding . These are organisations that are asking for facilities that should already be provided by the state government, and they're coming back to us and saying, Can we have a little bit of money to try and get some sort of solution as a backup because they've been let down by their actual funding body.

And it shouldn't be up to ratepayers who are already paying a significant amount for the RFS to then go and fund further requests. Also with the RFS in particular, those requests should be being prioritised centrally by Hawkesbury RFS and then come to Council and tell us what they want. It shouldn't be coming back to us for little bits. And I understand it's very well-meaning from PNCs, they're just trying to get stuff for their kids, but again, that should be coming from the state government if it's stuff they need. I also think one thing that was raised was whether or not we need to revisit the standard of what actually is a state or national competition and doesn't inter-school. Competition meet that definition.

Should there be some criteria around how many schools have to be participating for that to be legitimately a national event? So I'm happy to endorse this funding, but I think all those things should be looked at when it's reviewed.

Thank you, Councillor. All those in favour, please raise your hand. In favour are Councillor Reardon, Councillor Veigel, Councillor Sheather, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Djuric, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor McMahon, Councillor Kotlash. Those against, please raise your hand. Councillor Dogramaci, Councillor Lyons-Buckett and Councillor Wheeler. I declare the item carried.

3.2, Hawkesbury Active Transport Plan. Councillor Lyons-Buckett, move that way. Thank you, Mayor.

Seconder, Councillor Conolly. Councillor Lyons-Buckett. I really welcome this plan, and I hope that its existence translates into funding opportunities from Transport for New South Wales. We know that active transport lies at the heart of healthy communities, and just recently when we were at the conference in Canberra, we heard some wonderful speakers speaking about things such as the link between walkability and mental health, particularly in older adults. And so this high-level plan will hopefully deliver an array of actions which we need to implement to improve connectivity within our local government area . I'd really like to thank the submissions from the organisations. These are really welcome and beneficial, and they're really supportive of the need for us to have a plan like this in the first place.

The valuable input from Hawkesbury Nepean Health is really good for us to have to understand those sort of various links that they're putting into their submission, and also from the user groups, because by having the user groups give us such comprehensive feedback, we really understand the firsthand experiences of what barriers exist in our current network and what gaps there are and how we can maximise the use of certain locations. The gaps identified in the CAMWEST submission, and I would like to acknowledge, as that submission has done, the wonderful work done by the Lake Macquarie Bathurstby Around Cycleways in the Hawkesbury. It's really beneficial information that they've given us, and hopefully we can find the funding and opportunity to fill those gaps so that we have a truly connected place.

It does note in the submissions that we receive the importance of the tree canopy over walking and cycling network, and that's something that will definitely be required into the future. We want our people to be able to walk, cycle and move away from reliance on cars whenever and wherever possible. So this is a plan with significant benefits, especially for older people to be able to walk, and hopefully through the actions coming from this plan, we'll achieve suitable improvements that ensure accessible, safe options for that to occur. When we talk about liveable cities, we know we have challenges here with distance, and we hear a lot about the 15-minute and the 30-minute cities, which are quite hard for us to ever achieve.

But if we also tie this in with our housing policy so that we're actually having houses that people want to live in or that suit the needs of people in the areas where they can utilise walking to services and facilities, will be really good into the future. We need places that are accessible, shaded, and where our people can enjoy what's available for them in In particularly our town centres. So there were similar messages we heard at the conference from economists, futurists and environmentalists about how we should be building and connecting cities for our future. And this plan is an integral part of that. And I really thank the staff for the wonderful work done on it, and particularly for the organisations that submitted and the individuals who submitted with their specific locations.

It'll be a great plan into the future. I don't want to see it gathering dust or in Councillor Calvert's drawer. I want to see that it's implemented as soon as possible in as many ways as we can do. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor. Anyone else wishing? Councillor Sheather.

Yeah, thanks, Madam Mayor. I echo those sentiments. There's been a lot of work, and with the addendums that come with it, the work that's gone into it is certainly extensive. But if it means trying to promote Wilberforce, I won't talk about it anymore. We've got a medium—we've got 45 metres of path worth just under $12,000. It's an integral part of the pathway, the only bit that's not done, which is probably used the most out of all the people in Wilberforce. It's number 62. It's medium term, and the other two are the last two in the document, which is long term. And I don't know that they're refuge crossings. I don't know that anybody's had a fuss about that. But the pathway is something that both Council, Will and I brought up in the past, and there's a section out there that's— it's not poor anymore, it's just not there.

We've got a bit of gravel there. That needs attention as well. And I'd like, if there's an opportunity for that section of pathway to be looked at, to be brought forward from that. It's a small amount of money. It's in a bad section of road. We get lots of trucks and stuff there. And the footpath generally needs a bit of love and care anyway. Some of the areas not mowed and the like. There's a section of drain that hasn't got kerb and gutter that waters onto the tar all the time. And when you look through the documents, the amount of work that's been done in our more metropolitan areas, and I'm not saying none of them aren't essential, but I am saying that Wilberforce is essential. So, Madam Mayor, that's the only thing that I've got about it.

I think the document's an excellent document. And Mr Batheby has since left us, but I have sat in this chamber many years in the past and got e-bashings from him regularly about the lack of interest that we took in cycleways around the city. And indeed, that he instigated the restart of our cycleways. So he would be very pleased with such a document.

Thank you, Councillor. Councillor, Deputy Mayor.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. Yeah, over the years I've had to get a bigger drawer to put all those things in. I don't think this one will go in the drawer, but I am concerned because Sydney and its suburbs, the planning for all the suburbs took place during the era of the motor car. And so all of Western Sydney is designed for the motor car, and that includes Hawkesbury. It may not include the main street of Windsor, but it includes the suburbs of Hawkesbury. And what we're trying to do is to retrofit walking and cycling into that. And that's not an easy thing to do. And this plan, you know, it shows how we can do it in some ways. But your biggest problem is that, as the survey shows, most people use their cars to get to work.

If there was a cycleway accessible, you might get a few more that would cycle to work, but most wouldn't because they don't work close by. They work a long way away, usually. And so at best, the cycleways and walkways we're looking at here are for leisure purposes, not, you know, or fitness, I suppose, but not for a daily basis of getting to work and back. And that is because of the structure of our city. The only way you can do anything about that is to stop concentrating on the car and start concentrating on public transport, which includes buses. Now, a lot of people from Bilpin answered the survey. I saw that. If you go up our way, Kurrajong Heights, Bilpin, there's only two buses a day.

And they're basically school buses that the public can get on if they want to. And unless you work between about 10 a.m. and 2 p.m., the buses don't know used to you. So there's nowhere to cycle to. So if you had more buses that went to some kind of bus station up there somewhere, then people could walk or cycle to that and then get on public transport. So you would face it that way. But what we're doing here, I mean, it's nice, it's lovely, I do support it, but I have my doubts whether this is it. To me, this is the beginning. And it really needs to plug into public transport, and the state government needs to come on board with that so that people have somewhere to cycle or walk to. If they're going to work, they can cycle or walk to the public transport destination, and that's not easy at the moment.

And that, I think, is where we need to next focus our attention, is pushing government, state and federal, to provide us with more public transport and more nodes that people can access by walking or cycling. So, yeah, I do approve the document, and I won't put it in the bottom drawer, but I'm just saying it's not the end of the matter. It's actually the beginning of the matter. Thank you.

Thank you, Deputy Mayor. Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Madam Mayor. Can I just ask a couple of questions first? It mentioned in the business paper that we contacted Transport for New South Wales regarding the condition of the bike lanes on Wilberforce Road and the narrowness of Buttsworth Creek Bridge. Have we had any response from them?

Thank you. I'll refer to Council's road safety officer.

Thanks, Councillor.

Yes, we did get a response. They did mention that the contractor was working through a plan, and they have said that they will come back to me with some more details on that. Hurry up and wait,

Basically. And a note, actually, since we asked them, the condition of that bike lane has deteriorated further, and our attempts to get them to address the problem with the vegetation encroaching on the road were met with a bit of glyphosate dribbled on the grass, and all of the listed weeds have been duly ignored. There's a fantastic selection of castor oil plant. If we ever hit peak oil, or admit that we've hit peak oil, we can mine the castor oil plant for something. It's a shambles, getting narrower by the day and is just really a series of potholes and puddles. It's an area that's used by people who don't have any choice. This is not recreation. This is getting to and from the shops. In Windsor, a seven-kilometre or 14-kilometre round trip on a really treacherous stretch of road.

One of the things that we heard repeatedly, as Councillor Lyons-Buckett said last week, was about the importance of active transport and walkability and its connection to both improved mental health through increased social connection, but also the use of active transport as a means of building social capacity.

The idea of human-scale design, which is what the Deputy Mayor is referring to, I think, and that human-scale design is a key characteristic of the Macquarie towns and something that people moved to the Hawkesbury for. Their kids can still walk to school, for example. They can still ride a bike to school or after school. There's not a lot of places in Sydney left that can boast that. And as Sydney comes crashing towards us, they're things that we have to really be careful of. If things are good for cyclists, they're good for people with disability, they're good for elderly people, they're good for young families with prams, and they're good for kids walking and riding to school.

Walkability and active transport improve economic activity. People don't spend money sitting in a car. They do spend money if they're out walking through towns and villages, and that's what we've intended to do with the livability project.

I think the Deputy Mayor's concerns are valid around what we do with this now. I think, as we've discussed before, there's no point having these policies if they don't become part of a solution. And I think that's what this is. This isn't the whole solution to anything, but it can be part of the solution. Part of that is around holistic planning for far better outcomes. It's also about us putting our money where our policies are, and I think that relates to both urban greening and tree planting, as Councillor Lyons-Buckett referred to, but also increased money for connectivity and shared pathways so that we can really make towns and villages that are easy for people to live in without having to get in the car all the time.

That stretch of Putty Road, or Wilberforce Road, that Councillor Sheather refers to has deteriorated dramatically. It is unfortunately an RMS road, but the footpath, I presume, is ours. It's now a smear of bitumen. It's dangerous. It's a trip hazard. It's not a desirable place to walk, so people are walking on the roads. But more than that, it's become a desirable place to park. So because it's in such bad condition, trucks are pulling up and putting half of their wheels up on the footpath, which means that not only is the footpath being increasingly destroyed, but so is the chance of anybody walking down that footpath while the trucks are parked there, and they're there for hours every morning.

There's a thriving business across the road, and good on them. It's appeared out of seemingly nothing three or four years ago to what is now a thriving and very well-regarded business. But there is a traffic issue with that site that really needs to be addressed. So if we could make further representations to the RMS about that. And I presume the footpath is ours. Can we do something about it? It was busted because of a drainage problem, I think, at the Uniting Church site, and I think it was dug up and someone slapped a bit of bitumen on it, but there really needs to be something done about that site before there's a nasty accident there.

Thank you, Councillor. Anyone else wishing to speak? No right of reply, Councillor Lyons-Buckett.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. As I think it's just been pointed out, this is definitely a really good start for us to build from. As the Deputy Mayor said, the employment—we are largely car dependent—and that gives us the opportunity, as for housing, to have this as an integrated part of our planning overall for future employment opportunities. I do think things like connecting Richmond and North Richmond, when that's connected and there's a safe access between the two, will make a tangible difference. It will enable young people who don't have a vehicle to be able to access employment and social activities. It will enable people who choose to walk or safely get from one place to the other. It won't—I mean, it's not— doesn't mean you'll never need a car, but it certainly will be a big help.

Definitely more public transport. I know that when I lived in Bilpin, there was only two buses a day, and I am still traumatised by catching the school bus to work when I had to do that, when my car was in getting fixed, and that was about 40 years ago or something. So we definitely need more public transport. And if governments of other levels are going to come out and tell us we have to generate these short cities, short-time cities, 15-, 30-minute cities, they have to back that up with the provision of the adequate infrastructure to enable us to do that. So we can connect all areas coming into Windsor. So from Wilberforce, for example, and from South Windsor and Bligh Park, that will definitely make a difference, even though it won't eliminate our need for using cars.

But I definitely think this is a great start, and I look forward to seeing what we can do with it. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor. All those in favour, please raise your hand. In favour, Councillor Reardon, Councillor Veigel, Councillor Sheather, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Dogramaci, Councillor Djuric, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor McMahon, and Councillor Kotlash. I declare the item carried.

The next item is 10.4.1, Investment Report May 2024. Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Madam Mayor. I'll move the recommendation in the business paper.

Seconded. Councillor Lyons-Buckett. Thank you, Councillor.

Thanks, Madam Mayor. Just really quickly, I'm really pleased to see that we have started investing, or parking our money in Bendigo Bank. One of the concerns that came up time and again at the National General Assembly last week in Canberra was about the loss of banks in communities and the impacts of those on both businesses and residents, particularly elderly and vulnerable residents who no longer have the ability to walk into a bank. Bendigo, in contrast , retains two branches in two of our major shopping centres. That increases economic activity. It increases people coming to those centres because they go there specifically to the bank. We know once they're out of their car, they're more likely to frequent the businesses, so it's good for the other businesses there.

We know one of the death knells of a town is when the bank pulls out, and that, you know, we've seen some of that happen in Windsor Mall. So I think it's really good that we're putting council's money into a bank that keeps its branches, that has competitive interest rates, that doesn't invest in fossil fuels, and returns its money to communities through its community support programs to facilities like the Women's Cottage, for example. So this is a real win-win. I think council's money is the community's money, and I'm really pleased to see that it's being put into a community bank. So just a thank you to the staff.

Thank you, Councillor. Anyone else wishing to speak? Councillor Sheather.

Yeah, just a question, Madam Mayor, it's in relation to the comments that Councillor Wheeler made. With our involvement with the banks, it's becoming a problem all over Australia about the banks closing down access to bank facilities, cash opportunities. We've got an ageing population. This is going to be a problem for a lot of people. What involvement, if any, do we have with the banks in relation to, I guess, securing what we've got as a provision to the community, I mean, not what we're getting? Do those sort of discussions, or is there an opportunity to have those sort of discussions with banks that are here? Bendigo Bank got the tick by a lot of people, but there's other banks that don't seem to have that interest in the community, and closing down. And

While if you live in Windsor it's fine, but it's not only us. When you get in rural areas, they've got to drive from one town to another in some case because the banks are closed, and some post offices are taking up ATMs and stuff, but hardly good enough. And if we've got the opportunity to, I guess, stabilise, if there's any opportunity with the banks here, we at least should be having discussions about it. And so the question is, do we have those discussions, or is there an opportunity to have those discussions?

Thank you, Councillor. I can refer to staff. My assumption would be that's a separate issue to where Council is investing their money, but I will just seek any staff if they want to respond. General Manager. Thank you through you,

Madam Mayor. Look, it's a really important issue, as you've highlighted, Councillors. I think that it's not necessarily, as the Mayor's indicated, it's not necessarily related to our investments. If Council's got concerns about the withdrawal of banks, as have many rural and regional communities, it's my understanding that often the Council is firmly alongside of the community and being the last one to know about the withdrawal of these services, often. And it's certainly something that Council could be talking to the local banks about. But it's sort of, at this point, we would be questioning what concerns do we have about that before we go and raise those sorts of issues with the local banks. That's all.

Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak? Right of reply, Councillor Wheeler?

Not necessary, Mayor.

Thank you. Those in favour, please raise your hand. In favour, Councillor Reardon, Councillor Veigel, Councillor Sheather, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Djuric, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Wheeler, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor McMahon, Councillor Kotlash. I declare the item carried.

The next item is 11.1.2, Heritage Committee. Councillor Wheeler, you have an interest

Yes, thanks, Madam Mayor. I have an interest in item 11.1.2, the Heritage Committee minutes. It's a pecuniary interest. The nature of the interest is my family home is included in the Swab Barn study and proposed for heritage listing.

Thank you, Councillor. I'll just wait till you leave the room.

Do I have a councillor wishing to move that way? Councillor Conolly, seconded Councillor Sheather. Councillor Conolly.

Councillor Lyons-Buckett? Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'd just like to draw attention to some of the items that were raised in that particular committee, and the first one would be to thank the staff and the community for a well-constructed campaign around Alambi Cottages. Councillors, and I guess the public would know,

There's a final decision to be made on that by the Minister now after the Sydney West Planning Panel refused— I'm sorry, I've got a cough. Sorry , if someone else wants to speak, go ahead.

Is anyone else wishing to speak on the item? Madam Mayor. Oh yes, hello. There's your yellow hand. Thank you , Councillor Kotlash.

Thank you. I'd like to speak, but like Councillor Lyons-Buckett, I might outdo her in the coughing stakes, but anyway, I'll have a go. Sorry, I am very, very chesty at the moment. So I have a bit of a question about this, the slab barn and outbuildings update study. It seems when I was reading the business paper that this is a study, not necessarily a policy. And when I was reading the recommendations from the Heritage Committee, it sounded like we were putting this study on public exhibition, but simultaneously we were going to propose nominations for state heritage listing, and that's on page 67. And it goes on to say on page 68 at point two— excuse me— at point two, a lot of things that I would have thought would go into a policy and we would adopt, and then we would do, you know, certain things under that policy. For instance, the funding arrangements . Also,

Where was it? Needing to hold further discussions about the skills that are needed and the materials that are needed for actions based under that policy , not study. So I was just wondering whether we've put the cart before the horse a bit here, whether we should be working on a policy and then the Heritage Committee come back and work on that policy. It just seems like—I'm just not sure, and I wouldn't mind some clarification from the staff about exactly. Exactly where we're going with this, I found it quite confusing

Thank you, Councillor. I will just see who would like to answer your questions.

General Manager. I'm happy to take that, Councillor. I think the point you raise is potentially a valid one, although staff aren't necessarily troubled either way on this. I think we've done a significant amount of work on the study, as I understand it, and hence we have a degree of comfortability about beginning the processes around the state heritage listing, which in itself will take some time. That said, if councillors are of a mind to want to complete and publicly exhibit the draft study before it proceeds, that is equally a valid way to proceed. What the potential risk around that is around potential further degradation or loss of heritage assets in the meantime, I would suspect.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Anyone else?

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'll resume. Thank you. And it's my understanding around the study that the next step in that, that it would be a separate thing coming to council as the actual study. But my understanding was that the next step would be that the people dealing with the study would be speaking to the individual owners on whose property these slab barns are, and that until that was done, it wouldn't be coming here. But I may not. That may not be true, but I think anyone else on the Heritage Committee, Councillor Reardon or Councillor Djuric, could probably confirm that. Back to [unclear], though, we know that that was refused by the planning panel and the Minister will make a decision on the demolition of that or not.

On page 68, there are some questions about the Livability Project, and I was wondering — this may have to be taken on notice — when the answers of those will be forthcoming. I'm assuming from what's written in here that it would go to the next Heritage meeting or maybe be distributed.

Director of City Planning

Yeah

Thank you. We'll take that on notice.

Thank you. There was also an amendment, which I understand staff may have been advised of, around on page 69, referring to some kerb and guttering. It should read, damage to the kerb and gutter on Catherine Street, not Tebbutt Street, so that's been identified. The other question , or the other comment to make about the minutes is that there has not been much action on the recommendations that have been put forward to date, and so we really need to be better managing our own heritage assets. So that will require funding and prioritisation over other things. Aside from that, I think that there are a number of really good initiatives suggested around how we should better be storing materials to do with the slab barns, and also the recommendation that within the heritage funding assistance scheme, that the theme should be around doing the outdoor buildings and— The slab barns in particular, if that's possible.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor. Anyone else wishing to

Speak? Councillor Reardon. Yes, also at the last heritage meeting, it was mentioned that we could have an educational program about where we're up to with these things, which I thought was a great idea. Thank you, Councillor.

Any other comments? No. Right of reply, Councillor Conolly. Not necessary. Those in favour, please raise your hand in favour of Councillor Reardon, Councillor Veigel, Councillor Sheather, Councillor Conolly, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Dogramaci, Councillor Djuric, Councillor Lyons-Buckett, Councillor Zamprogno, Councillor McMahon, Councillor Kotlash. Absent from the room is Councillor Wheeler. I declare the item carried.

The next item is item 12.1.1, Notice of Motion 1, tree planting, George Street, Windsor. Councillor Dogramaci, do you wish to move that? Yes,

Thank you very much, Madam Mayor.

I just need a seconder.

Councillor Sheather. Councillor Dogramaci.

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

My objection is not to plant, not to go ahead with planting, but planting these trees on an area where I feel that the visitors, the people, elderly people with scooters, expecting mothers and mothers pushing their prams.

And there's a saying in our language, in Australian language, horses for courses. I have absolutely nothing against planting trees. I love trees. But my objection is, while I was going through some paperworks, I have discovered this constructing company apparently has produced this kind of photos to the

Panel, panel that decided, or decided not to give this contract to this company, K&K Civil or something like that.

This is in Hunters Hill. It doesn't resemble to what we have in George Street. In George Street, perhaps the only street in whole Hawkesbury, as far as I know, with no potholes. It's a concrete. And I was there a couple of weeks ago, I'm sure that some of you will remember, and I protested. I stood there and they refused to move, and a few people from management, you know, they came and they asked me, you know, what I was doing. There, as a matter of fact, mentioned that, you know, I have passed on the 18th of April, I think, you know, for this project to go ahead. And I did, and I admit I made a mistake. Maybe it was an oversight. I made a mistake and I own my mistake, and I make sure that, you know, I won't repeat again.

It was a mistake. I feel that from other councillors' part, maybe nobody else went and had a good look, you know, what was happening. When we were produced, when the panel members, you know, were produced this photo, they thought it was panel members. I might add that my investigation tells me that not a single one of the panel members lived in Hawkesbury, and when they had a look at this photo, they thought we were going to get exactly the same thing. It is wrong. I personally went in that area and I measured it. It's 5.2 metres, almost twice as big as our pathways. When the police called in, we agreed, and my right to protest, part of Summary Offences Act 1988, Part 4, tells me that I have every right to protest.

And as a matter of fact, it encourages me as a protester and the police to work along together for the peaceful solution. I didn't insult anyone. I didn't block the traffic. I simply stood there, and when I spoke with the supervisor, he promised that he wasn't going to dig the area where apparently it was planned, and he promised that he would move it, you know, to another area, which I had no objection. And the following day when I went there, they have planted more than, you know, what he promised. When I saw that they were digging next to the hotel, I don't know the name of the hotel, Darren Peat came in, and we noticed that the area that they dug left only about 50 centimetre, 500 mil space.

How on earth, you know, could somebody, you know, would go through there, someone, an elderly with a scooter, you know, would negotiate that 500 millimetre? And my understanding is that at the second page of this motion, from traffic guidance systems will be installed. That's okay. Council staff hand delivered flyers on 6th of June, three weeks prior to the job started, and the business people, you know, have been discussed about it. I went and I visited every single one of the business owners, and I don't mean some of them, every single one of them, including the accountant next to it, the coffee shop, Vinny's. I went to Salvation Army. I went to doctors, dentist, optometrist, not a single one of them remembers anyone from council coming and consulting and telling them what was happening.

What happens when they start digging those concretes and that putting the plants and maybe replacing the car parking spot with flower beds? I feel that council should not permanently, temporarily stop this construction, and the council officers should really give some time to go and have discussed this matter with not only with the shop owners, but maybe, you know, some people around that immediate area to see what's going to happen. And probably we would come to some kind of a conclusion. Maybe we should move some kind of a pot, some kind of pot instead of just putting a permanent. We own those pathways, we own those areas, and if the pots didn't work, we can move them to somewhere else. Councillor, your time has expired.

Would you wrap

Up?

Okay. Thank

You.

Thank you, Councillor Conolly.

I won't vote for the motion. I just want to say that I can tell that this is well intentioned, but this has been discussed to death. I think if people don't read the information that's been put out for years, if people don't come to the events that are put on, the meetings to inform them, then you can't come along at the last minute yet again and try and change all the plans yet again. I'll be finished on Council in two months, and at this rate it'll be going by the time the next Council election comes around in four years' time. There'll still be no decision made. We've just got to move on. It's getting stupid.

Thank you, Councillor Zamprogno.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. And through you, I'd like to point out to the mover of this motion that Councillor Dogramaci not only voted for this measure, which included the tree planting, in the meeting that was noted in the note by management on the 18th of April 2023, but Councillor Dogramaci voted for this proposal, included tree planting, on the 11th of July 2023, the 13th of February 2024 , and the 22nd of February 2024, where this was all laid out in excruciating detail. So I find it difficult to support the Councillor's notice of motion when he has voted in favour of this on so many occasions. And I might add, the only reason that those details are so readily at hand is because those statistics about which way Councillors vote are readily available through Hawkesbury City Council Watch.

Councillor Sheather.

Yeah, thanks, Madam Mayor. Madam Mayor, my views about planting the street go back some time, but as Councillor Zamprogno just pointed out, the resolution of this Council has put the staff and contractors in a particular direction, and— And in the main, councillors should support that. One of the things that Councillor Dogramaci brought up was in relation to, I guess, contact in relation to work that's being done. We've now got someone that works for Council that is working very hard with the community in relation to what's happening. The business has been contacted well prior to the works coming past their premises or the likes, and in relation to the easement that Councillor Dogramaci spoke about, that, I guess, adequate accommodation to accommodate, because especially in the bottom, I've seen people on mobile scooters quite a bit, and I know the work's got to be done, but maybe they can be contacted.

They're out on the scooters fairly regularly, but are we going that far in relation to how we make contact with the community and the businesses?

Director of City Planning. Yeah,

Thank you. Through you, Madam Mayor. The livability project post continued updates in terms of the current and proposed schedule of works, including timelines and details of locations. It's noted in the response by management that all of the works being undertaken to minimise disruption, including pedestrian interference in terms of movement and place around the centres. Notwithstanding, there will be exceptional circumstances where that may happen, but it certainly wouldn't be on both sides of the road, and it wouldn't happen without advance warning to the community. There continues to be ongoing engagement with businesses and residents up George Street. In addition to the sessions that have been advertised here, we actually have a dedicated officer who's going out visiting the project team, who's having ongoing conversations, and as well as online.

Information that's available. We're also distributing in hard copy and having face-to-face one-on-one meetings with businesses wherever needed.

Madam Mayor, we've got one information board up in the mall. Quite often when we're doing works, or the government does works on roads and the like, they put a sign up saying it's been promoted or done by the like. Would there be the possibility of doing such a thing so that the general public that proceed past there could see it? Quite often there's been comments made to me about, I know nothing about it, and I don't suspect they're lying, but the opportunity's been there, I guess. We see it because we discuss it here regularly, but there's a lot of the community that couldn't care less really what we do until we interfere with something that, their lifestyle or the like. Something like a poster, a sign, and perhaps, you know, the plan of what's happening might be prudent if it's appropriate places to put it.

The other thing, in relation to the tree planting, we've got two types of trees, the lilly pilly and the— What's the other one Councillor

There's three types of trees, I believe. I think there's three types .

Are we looking at particular trees in sections of our streets, so there's corridors, or are we higgledy-piggledy planting them? That's not clear within the documents. And the other one, with the lilly pilly, that— It's been brought to my attention that they have berries on them.

And considering the amount of birds that flock into the trees out here, that if we're putting lily pillies up the main street, we've had trouble with our lighting in the parks and stuff where these birds are chewing the wires through. If we encourage them with those sorts of trees up the street, whether or not they're going to damage land on private properties, and they just chew wires to bits and everything. I don't know whether that's been looked at, and it's only been brought to my attention in the last couple of days. So if at all the staff's aware of that, or if not, maybe they might like to look at that. The flowers on them is terrific, but maybe berries in that might encourage particular birds to be, especially the ones we've got out here, to be a problem up the street.

Thank you, Councillor. I'll just check with staff if that can be taken on notice.

Thank you. Councillor Djuric.

I can't support this notice of motion simply because we can't repeatedly support something, spend money on it, action the plan, and then call a halt to it. The planting of trees was a resolution—

Is that feedback coming from someone?

The planting of trees was a resolution of Council where every councillor was present and every councillor partook in the voting process. This matter has been dealt with many, many times. If Councillor Dogramaci can't remember voting for the matter, I can see why some businesses can't remember being informed that this project is going ahead. One couldn't run a private business like this. This is the kind of madness that would send a business broke. We are responsible for public money, and we need to act responsibly. The treaty matter has been succinctly expressed, particularly during the council meeting on the 18th of April 2023, item 4.3.4, where the recommendation was to firstly note the process and secondly determine its preferred option and way forward.

Information given to councillors to help them appropriately consider the matter delivered via attachments, namely attachment 2, under heading Key Steps and Consultation, at one point mentions vegetation and natural elements, in brackets, street trees and plantings. At a second point, labelled Windsor, it states George Street, Green Tree Boulevard. It then continues, street trees to be planted to align with the rest of George Street, with a further two references to George Street being a green boulevard. It then goes on to specify under the heading Windsor, Ranking and Key Project, with point number 1, George Street streetscape, formal tree boulevard; point number 2, trees to be planted to align with the rest of George Street; point number 3, extend the tree planting; point number 7, additional trees.

There is a second attachment labelled Hawkesbury Town Centre update. Whilst I accept some of the writings can be confusing, this attachment came with beautiful illustrations under the heading W01.1 George Street Green Tree Boulevard, and the following page labelled W01.2, also George Street Green Tree Boulevard, together succinctly showed a total of 55 trees. Along with the following three pages, also labelled George Street as the Green Tree Boulevard, succinctly highlights 111 trees in total. Whilst I accept this is only an indication, it left no confusion that the odd tree was coming to George Street. This matter was resolved by Council to adopt Option 3. All councillors were present. Option 3 states street trees to be planted where appropriate, in brackets, road and footpath.

In the following meeting on the 9th of May 2023, Council unanimously supported that the minutes accurately reflected this. No one said, Hey, what's this tree thing? I didn't support that. This was repeated ad nauseam at a following briefing session on the 27th of June, where all councillors received the same illustrations and writings that left no confusion that trees were on the way for Windsor. On two occasions, Councillor Sheather made small representations on concerns he had with planting trees in the street. No other councillor indicated that they shared Councillor Sheather's sentiment, giving certainty to the appearance that trees were well supported right along the process by all other councillors.

I am not getting feedback from the community that the planting of these trees is problematic. I am getting feedback that a councillor is approaching businesses stating they had no idea that the street was getting trees planted. Now, if this is the case, I can be sympathetic in that some of these matters are difficult to grasp. However, it is also the job of elected representatives to make sure that they are across all matters before them so that they can appropriately represent the community. I cannot support stopping a project part the way through simply because of the possibility some councillors might not have done their due diligence. Thanks.

Thank you, Councillor. Anyone else wishing to speak? Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Madam Mayor. This project is

Fast becoming a farce, frankly. This was conceived to improve the livability of Windsor, Richmond and South Windsor. It has done just that in Richmond and South Windsor. So there was a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth about those trees going into Richmond. Now they look fantastic. The first hot day you drive down the main street of Richmond, and the first thing you think is, Great, there's some trees. That was the whole point, and we have done what we set out to do in those towns. Everybody's still managing to park, reverse parking being a key component of the New South Wales licence testing scheme.

It's working.

Frankly, I am flabbergasted that we have so stymied this in Windsor through repeated— and I'm a bit flabbergasted that people are now saying, Oh, we really need to get on with it. It's terrible to delay this project, when basically it's been delayed for three years by people rearranging bits of it over and over again. We talked at the beginning of the meeting about the courage shown by Karen Hodges in making hard decisions. We are now at the hard decision end of this project before we lose all the money, not just the money we haven't spent, but the money that we have spent. Let's think about that: $15 million of ratepayers' money that we would have to hand back to the funding bodies if we can't finish this project by the middle of next year.

I don't understand why we keep upending things. We had a vision for these towns and a vision for Windsor, and yet we keep fiddling with it. There has been— I'd like to say that we've let the perfect get in the way of the good, but frankly, that's not what's happened here. What we've let, we've let populism get in the way of the good, frankly. To hear that it's costing us $1,200 a month to keep these trees alive with a contractor is just— that's mad.

I'm very happy to hear about concerns about access, but I'm sure that we assessed access at the beginning of this project. We have consulted with businesses. Windsor had hope and a spring in its step when we were beginning to roll this project out. We had an unprecedented investment in business in Windsor. We have dickered around for so long that that has gone, and businesses are rightly both perplexed and angry about how long this has taken, about the constant delays and rejigs, and they have really taken their toll. The top end of Thompson Square is in real trouble. I agree with Councillor Sheather that some photos of the plans, perhaps with a contact number for Phil Moore, would be really helpful, at least at both ends of the mall and possibly outside the library, where people could be referred to to go and have a look about what's going to happen if they haven't had time to go to the drop-in sessions, which I think were well attended.

Certainly the feedback I got from them was good.

This is exactly what we discussed with respect to active transport, pathways, tree canopy and walkability. This project has always been about increasing liveability, and tree planting in our currently hot, bare streets is a key element of that.

We now need to get on with it. I've got two questions that I'm happy to take on notice. How much money have we got left in the liveability project kitty? And I've got a question about the gas lamps, which I understand are running 24/7. Is that true? And could I get a cost estimate of what it's actually costing us to light up a perfectly well-lit area in broad daylight with a fossil fuel? Thanks.

Thank you, Councillor. Anyone else wishing to speak on the item? Councillor Lyons-Buckett.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. Just a question first to clarify. Has each location where the trees are going , I'm assuming that has been assessed for access around that and also visibility for road traffic?

Director of City Planning. Yeah,

Thank you through you, Madam Mayor. When the domain designs were done, there was a road audit that was undertaken to determine optimum tree locations. It's also about canopy coverage as well. In saying that, Windsor Town Centre, a similar approach will be applied as was in Richmond, whereby there'll be direct engagement with the buildings and owners and operators in the immediate surrounds, just to determine or to advise at the proposed tree location and when there's any issues in terms from a practical perspective that are raised, where there's a sensible readjustment that can realistically be made, staff will certainly endeavour to accommodate that. Okay,

Thank you. That's good to know because I wouldn't like impeded accessibility from anything. And in fact, accessibility was what was at the core of the Liveability Project. The whole aim was to make areas like the mall accessible and safe for everybody to utilise. And we must remember that when we're talking about a liveability project, we're talking about a project for our community. This is for everybody who uses our open spaces. It's not an economic development project for a few small businesses. It's not a heritage project in itself. It's a foundational project to give the maximum liveability in our town centre, and we had resolved on how that was going to proceed. We were going to make sure there was even paving where people weren't falling anymore.

We were going to open it up so that we could see the beautiful heritage buildings, that we could celebrate the beauty of heritage that exists in that long street all the way down through Windsor. We were never going to lose the gas lamps or the water wheels. None of that was going to be taken away. And yet we've had massive delays upon delays, and it's unfortunate that we are being viewed both by some people within the community as having some business community as letting them down by not getting on with it. But also the other day I was speaking to a Camden councillor who found it incredulous that we still hadn't finished the Liveability Project, which the other seven parkland councils finished a few years ago.

So we cannot delay it any longer. It will be a really good addition to our town, and it can be built upon. People can organise to try and access funding to do other things to revitalise the town. We had one revitalisation project which was around the murals, and that was very successful. There's nothing to stop people lobbying for more to be done within the future. But for now, the focus is liveability. That money was dedicated to liveability. And that's what we have to deliver. It's our responsibility, as other councillors have said, to get on with it and to do it, to deliver what we had promised before we lose the funding, and we do it, knowledge how wonderful Richmond and South Windsor are looking.

And when the temperature gets to 45 degrees during summer, people are going to be really happy that their car is parked near a tree or that they can walk in some shade down the street. I think that we should not delay any longer. I'm pleased to see that things have gone underway, and I'm sure we'll be hearing more about the proposed Stage 1A and Stage 2 coming up. And I don't think that sending us emails telling us we don't know anything and what we should do and what we haven't done is particularly helpful. Open dialogue is welcome and acceptable, but it has to be done within both the spirit and the obligations that we undertook when we first took this project on. And that's what we have to get on with, and that's what we have to deliver to try and give Windsor the boost that it sorely needs.

As Councillor Wheeler said, the top end of Windsor is losing businesses, it's losing its vibrancy, and we have got to play our part in cleaning it up and helping it to look better.

Thank you, Councillor. Anyone else wishing to speak? I might just have some remarks, and I can see that the debate tonight centred a lot around the livability project per se. But my issue here is not so much the livability project and the content of what's happening in Windsor. But the hypocrisy of the councillor who has moved the motion, and Councillor Dogramaci, you have come into this chamber time and time again concerned about the wastage of ratepayers' or taxpayers' money based on the decisions of council. Yet you yourself have protested, which you clarify is your right, which cost ratepayers that morning with delays from the contractor. You've put a motion here tonight that could potentially, if it was passed, see money be paid to a contractor for not performing the work under the contract, because that would be my assumption as the terms of the contract that they would still need to be paid.

You talk about wastage of ratepayers' money, yet multiple times it has been shown tonight you voted on this liveability item. Multiple times you have declared you don't read the business paper. You've just nodded in agreement to that. And multiple times verbally in these meetings you have said you don't know what you're doing. If you are talking about wasting ratepayers' money, by agreeing tonight that you don't even read the business papers, you aren't doing the very minimum that you are required to do as an elected representative when it comes to making sure that the ratepayers who pay you a fee for service for the service that you provide to the community, you have just agreed tonight you're not doing the bare minimum that's required.

Hence why you've come into this chamber, it appears, multiple times and voted for items that tonight you want to overturn. I don't want to go on any further to say much more than that, but I need to point out the hypocrisy and the signs, I guess, that you've got around the community that belittle, degrade this council, this entity, the hard work of the staff. When, in fact, the behaviour that you're exhibiting, the acknowledgement that you don't do your due diligence as a councillor, to me is far worse. And that's all I have to say. Right of reply, Councillor Dogramaci. Sure.

Thank you very much. When you mention hypocrisy, yeah, I'm sure that every single individual and most of the residents in this electorate would know who is it when I nodded my head, just like that. It wasn't an accolade. It was a common courtesy, saying that, you know, I'm listening. When it comes to wasting of money, nobody could question me about the $40 million, that colossal waste this management, you know, has cost these people, $2,400 per dwelling in this area. I didn't wake up in the middle of the night and decided to move this motion. Yes, of course I will fight. I will fight to the end to save people money. But we believe in democracy, and if this motion doesn't pass, what am I going to do?

Am I going to protest again? No. I will let people to suffer. I don't want that, but that will be the consequences. And when you mention costing so much money, I was there at six o'clock and waited for these people to come in and to give me an explanation. Initially, the superintendent told me something, and he did something else. My fight started when I received a couple of telephone calls and emails. That's how it started, when I said that, you know, I made a mistake. Yes, maybe one, two or three, so what? We all make mistakes in our lives. There are some councillors in this room, coming in here is a mistake. Some managers in this room coming to this meeting is a mistake. I'll carry on. Well, you'll always interrupt me or— No, I'm

Just reminding you that you can't insult people

In this meeting

Okay.

All right, well, I say what I feel like it. I'm doing my duty 100%. Maybe most of the councillors, you know, while they were in bed, you know, I'm going and visiting these people. When I called in every single one of those shop owners, when I told them what was going to happen, every single one of them—and I'm not saying that, you know, one or two—every single one of them told me the same thing. They said, So were these signs, were they because of the planting trees or not? And I said, Yes. All I am saying is that council officers, whoever he or she might have called on those individuals, either they are not telling the truth or every single one of the shop owners are lying. They told me another single individual called on them, explained and told them what was happening.

Like I said, I'm not fighting to stop tree planting. All I am saying is that perhaps we should call in, or somebody should call in to these people or the people around that area to see what might be thinking. What we do right today, it's exactly wrong tomorrow or next week or the week after. So what? I made a mistake. I made another mistake. Maybe it was a lack of knowledge in that area. I didn't know what myrtle was. I don't know what lily pilly is. I still don't know what it is. I've never seen it. So I don't know whether, if I could amend that, you know, I would go and I would start some kind of a petition. Would that be acceptable, to see what people are going to say? That's all I have to say.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor. Those in favour of the notice of motion, please raise your hand.

In favour, Councillor Dogramaci. Those against, please raise your hand. Against are Councillor Reardon, Councillor Vargoulis, Councillor Sheather, Councillor Calvert, Councillor Duric, Councillor Lynes-Buckett, Councillor Wheeler, Councillors Impragno, Councillor McMahon and Councillor Kotlash. I declare the item lost.

The next item, item on the agenda is 14.1.1, responses to councillor questions taken on notice at the Council meeting 28 May 2024. Councillor Lyons-Buckett.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I was just interested in the response. I'm not specific to that question, but I was just concerned that Council doesn't seem to have access to any more data around wetlands. In 2021, there was a Hawkesbury Wetland Site Assessment Program, which undertook research and monitoring of wetlands in the Hawkesbury. The Council were engaged as a stakeholder, and that covered 30 key wetlands and recommended actions to restore wetlands. It's in the library, a copy of it in the library. The Hawkesbury Environment Network and Hawkesbury Nepean Landcare Network did a collaboration, which was funded by LLS and Landcare, with New South Wales Government funding. And I think we've got a number of groups like Wetland Warriors and the people who look after, or who go to Blundell Swamp, Bushells Lagoon, Pitt Town Lagoon.

I think there's a lot there, and I think it's, when Councillor Kotlash raised that question, I think it really shows that wetlands are a key part of the Hawkesbury. I believe we've got about 80, and that, I just shouldn't talk, that we need to do more about it.

Thank you, Councillor.

Question, Madam Mayor.

Councillor Sheather.

In relation , with the wetlands, the swamps that were just mentioned by Councillor Lyons-Buckett, well, I call them swamps, wetlands. They've been there a long while. With all this change that I've been on about and floodgates to drain these areas, the drainage systems doesn't drain the swamps. It's just they're blocked up and they're much fuller of water than what they have been in the past because the water simply can't get out. Could we get some information down the track to see what implication that has on a wetland? Because we are proposing to look at some of those drainage issues and whether or not take them back to their original. I'm not suggesting we dig them any deeper. I'm just suggesting we clean the darn things out, that because of whatever act the wetlands come under, that that creates a problem for us.

Thank you, Councillor. It'll be taken on notice. Thank you. Thank you , Councillors. Responses to— Oh, sorry. Oh, yes, please, Councillor Kotlash.

Thank you. I'd just like to say that the reason that I asked this question, and I was actually aware of the studies that Councillor Lyons-Buckett has referred to, those studies don't necessarily go into depth about hydrology. And since we had received that very, very good study on our drainage and our responsibilities to all the different sorts of drainage assets we have, I wanted to sort of highlight the fact that some of our wetlands may have actually been products of diversions from the main channel of the river or from, you know, different creeks. Back in the day when industry like bakeries and flour mills and everything used water to be able to run. Now, it's not such a big deal in one way, but in another way, if we're responsible for that, for— Coping with what that actual wetland is doing and how it behaves, it would be good to know that.

I'm a bit disappointed that we can't get that information, but I appreciate the staff's effort in that regard. But that's why I just want to put that, you know, into the mix. Just because there's a wetland and it's full of water doesn't necessarily mean that's a good thing. It might need to drain, and it can't. Or alternatively, there are wetlands that never really dry out much, and that's all, you know, perfectly good. But I think we need to know that, and it's just something that gets forgotten a lot. And, yeah, as I said, thank you to the staff for trying to answer that question. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Madam Mayor. Just in response to Councillor Sheather's question, if I might, that was the reason that I amended the motion at the previous meeting around that discussion where Councillor Kotlash asked this question to include the Riverkeeper from Western Sydney and academics from Western Sydney University, because they will be able to answer that question, I think, and it is a really relevant question. I think one of the things that we see with our wetlands, we see several things. Firstly, we see even the naming of the wetlands. Things like Bushells Lagoon and Blundell Swamp show how we have devalued these extraordinary environmental assets over the 250-odd years of colonisation. People who came to the Hawkesbury came from an environment where wetlands were seen as a nuisance and something to be drained to improve agricultural capacity.

And that's really at odds with maintaining ephemeral wetlands like we have, and, you know, this chain of ponds system that is a characteristic of the Hawkesbury-Nepean Basin, and actually something that really needs to be celebrated rather than looked at as a nuisance. And we know that Western Sydney University has done extensive research on these. They may have some of the mapping that Councillor Kotlash refers to that shows the evolution of some of these sites. Certainly, they've got information that shows the degradation of these sites. And, you know, I'm thinking of places like Bushells Lagoon, where, you know, it's got an illegal road plonked through it. It's been pillaged, really, for the last 250 years through a combination of drainage and dumping of toxic chemicals and the release of introduced species like carp that have caused irreparable damage to that wetland.

So, and this is something that we see across the LGA. They're either filled in or drained or built over or ignored . This is characteristic of our management of the Australian continent since colonisation. The little bits that we have here that are able to be protected because they sit on a floodplain that can't be built out are really important, and we need to continue those discussions. Unfortunately, the Wetlands Working Group seems to have— seem to not be as active post-COVID. It would be nice if we could look at restarting that. It's one of the things that's been raised a few times by the Landcare coordinator at the Hawkesbury River County Council. Again, these sites are often the sites of lots of weed activity as well because nutrients stockpile in them because they're, just by their very nature, at the soggy end of wherever they are.

Thank you, Councillor. If that was all on that one, we'll move on to item 14.1.2.

Responses to Councillor questions taken on notice at the Council meeting 11th of June 2024.

No, nothing, Councillors. Thank you very much.

That's the end of all of the items on our agenda this evening. I thank everybody for their attendance and I call the meeting to a close at 8.37 p.m. Thank you, everybody.