Disaster and Emergency Committee Meeting - 6 October 2026

Thanks. Good evening, afternoon, and welcome to our Disaster and Emergency Committee meeting of Tuesday the 6th of October. I'd like to welcome all those who are attending the meeting in the gallery tonight, as well as those who are attending online. Hawkesbury City Council acknowledges the Darug and Darkinjung people as the traditional custodians of the land of the Hawkesbury. We pay our respects to all Elders past, present and emerging, and acknowledge all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people as the First Peoples of the country. I will now hand over to the General Manager to share the information regarding the meeting.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. Members of the public attending the meeting are advised that in the event of an emergency, you will be asked to proceed in an orderly manner to the nearest exit, following the guidance of our warden. I would also like to advise that in accordance with Clause 5.3.4 of the Code of Meeting Practice, meetings of the Council, including this committee meeting, are recorded. In the terms of the Privacy and Personal Information Protection Act, this may involve the recording of personal information provided at the time of the meeting. The recordings are made to assist staff in compiling the minutes of the meeting and to enable the podcasting and live stream of Council committee meetings.

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Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Thank you. I'd like to acknowledge the official visitors here tonight. We have Inspector Ethan Parker from the New South Wales Rural Fire Service, Unit Commander Kevin Jones from the State Emergency Services, and Acting Station Officer Cameron Cloth from New South Wales Ambulance. Thank you for attending tonight. Apologies for this meeting. We have apologies from Councillors Sarah McMahon, Les Sheather, Mike Creed and Paul Veigel. Someone move? I'll

Move that.

Moved Councillor Reardon, seconded Councillor Zamparo. All those in favour? Unanimous. Thank you. Moving on to the business paper, reports for determination. Our first item is the emergency management update, H5 Avian Influenza, and we will hear from Jackie Carr. Thank you. Oh, sorry, I forgot something. Sorry, Jackie. Declarations of interest. Do any councillors have any declarations of interest? No? Well, there we go. That was lucky. You're halfway up now, Jackie. Thank you. You can proceed.

Apologies. I was taking the report as read, but in terms of the update, the numbers have changed slightly from the time of writing the report. So we've now had 68. Cases within New South Wales, 682 nationally. There's been no significant changes that I'm aware of. There's still no detections within the poultry, which is what I believe is our greatest concern, particularly economic and the impact on our community, who is already disaster fatigued, well and truly. So that is a good thing at this point. However, I think we need to be realistic in that I don't think we'll be immune to bird flu arriving in the Hawkesbury. So we are doing our bit to support the community in terms of preparation. The emergency management team and the broader LEMC is working with the regional and state and federal governments in terms of preparedness.

Our corporate communications team is doing what they do with any disaster or potential disaster in terms of sharing all available information to our community so they can be as prepared as possible. In terms of what Council's doing, we are prepared. We have a triggered action response plan, which is essentially a staged approach, first initially arriving in Australia, New South Wales, and then if we get a detection within the Hawkesbury, what our response, we're essentially supporting the responding agency, which will largely be DPI. And we're currently advocating in terms of disposal in the event that we do get a mass mortality event. We're doing all we can to prevent the use of our waste facility because of the legacy issues that may come with that and the potential for the spread.

Yeah, we are just preparing and ready to go should we get an outbreak within the Hawkesbury.

Thank you for that. We might see if there's any councillor questions before we move a recommendation.

Councillor Cotlash. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Thanks for that. I just wanted to know, have we got data on how many people have backyard chickens? And I know that the poultry industry is the one that we're going to be, you know, most worried about, but I just sometimes wonder whether we know how many backyard chickens we have.

The answer to that would be no. There is also a bit of a reluctance to share information in terms of industry as well. We've sort of had a struggle to get that information ourselves because they're protective of that information from both the biosecurity and protesters. So, yeah, we're using all of our networks to find out as much as we can to be able to support, but we are just— As comms always do a fabulous job in sharing the messaging, just getting that messaging out as much as possible.

Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I guess I was just wondering because there are networks out there for backyard chooks. I mean, there's lots of them, and that's probably okay. I just wondered whether we had, you know, anyway, some idea. The other question too is, I didn't see Greater Sydney Local Land Services involved. Are they not? I know DPI RD is the lead agency. Is Local Land Services getting involved at all? I know they do for cane toads.

They're supporting and they're a resource available to us. But in terms of that linkage, it's predominantly DPI that have the lead on it, and Local Land Service, along with the rest of us, support that

Deputy Mayor.

Thank you, Madam Mayor. There was a point of connection here that I didn't anticipate. The front page talks about the State Coordination Centre at Orange, where all of the advice comes out from. I was actually there on a tour only about three weeks ago as part of a school excursion. Of course, the school where I teach has an agricultural focus, and there was an overnight school excursion to Orange, and we found ourselves speaking with the Deputy Chief Vet of New South Wales, who was the author of this advice. I think his name's Dr Brendan Sharp. And we had our own question, and it's a question that I think we need to be mindful of as well. Our question as an agricultural high school, we have our own poultry.

We regularly go to shows. We show that poultry. And the question was, well, is that still okay? And it was heartening to be in the room with the gentleman. He says, Oh, actually, I signed off on that advice only this morning. So I felt like the advice was coming from the horse's mouth. He said that poultry shows are still okay so long as the infection has not reached— Poultry at Tennybin can find wild animals at the moment. So I presume we would be very quick in disseminating any change to that advice, particularly when we have so much agricultural shows in this area and at the showground and otherwise, and hope that that situation maintains. But it's a handsome facility that they've got out there at Orange and has other points of contact.

So, for example, Councillor Wheeler, as a member of the HRCC, would know that we've pioneered the use of salvinia weevils for the control of salvinia. That program originated out at Orange, and other forms of biological control that they're thinking to bring in for a variety of pest species. So, yeah, that concludes my remarks.

Thank you. Any further questions from councillors? Councillor Wheeler.

Thanks, Madam Mayor. Councillor Ryan and I went to a workshop on bird flu last year. I think it was before local government New South Wales, one of the pre-conference workshops, and I think it was before bird flu had hit Australia, but we were getting ready. One of the points that was made there was that areas like the Hawkesbury are at higher risk, in particular because so many people keep backyard birds and are not necessarily aware of the risks and aware of the need for containment should we have a case here, but also because of the wetlands that we have that see a migration of what are largely coastal birds back into our wetlands. Have we taken that into account in the measures that we've got in place?

We've certainly done some mapping of wetlands and, you know, as much as the information is available, and so we have visibility of where our potential impact areas are.

Thanks, which brings me to the next thing, I think, and is that have we done anything to prepare those other groups who are likely to make contact? So wildlife care groups, groups like the Hawkesbury Environment Network that are often in those wetland spaces or have eyes on those wetland spaces. And then the other group, of course, is the backyard poultry keepers, and I'm one of them. But they're throughout the Hawkesbury, both in rural and residential areas, and they tend to communicate quite well online, but we will never have a handle, I don't think, on how many there are. We will be relying entirely on word of mouth and perhaps word through, I think probably the easiest contact is through feed supply shops, which is where people make contact often.

So, you know, I was at Skibberas today. That's where I buy my stuff from. That's one of the biggest places there would be. There's probably six or seven places of that scale, slightly smaller, where people would at least be able to pick up a pamphlet, read something, would also ask for medication. So a lot of these feed places, people will buy antibiotics and/or various treatments, that they don't go to the vet for because the vet's more expensive, and yet you can get an over-the-counter thing from a stock feed place, advised usually by someone on a Facebook forum. So if we can infiltrate some of those spaces, I think we've got a better chance of getting information out to those groups. So Hawkesbury Poultry is the name of the Facebook group.

It would be worth getting a post on there. Fortunately, this space seems to be relatively free of conspiracy theories and people thinking that everyone's going to come and take your chooks. I'd be quite happy for someone to come and take my ducks, because they drive me—they're two of the stupidest birds ever to draw breath. But, you know, that is entirely beside the point. I'm also really—I'm pleased too to see that we're trying to avoid the use of the waste facility. There was work done— Councillor Lyons-Buckett may remember it—there was work done years ago on the tip and leaching from the tip around when we were burying animals from the pound, and that may provide us with some useful information to counter the use of that facility, given that it drains down into the university lands, which then go into lands that are likely to be accessed by other birds.

So I think it's risk—the risk of leachate contaminating has some potential. The final question I've got is around what—I heard an interesting discussion on the radio a couple of weeks ago when I was driving to council about the response in Victoria, and one of the comments made was that whoever was in control of the beach, in that case I think the council, was quite slow to clean up the birds, and so members of the public were going in and cleaning up. And so I think there's two prongs to that problem. Do we have a stack of PPE that we can give to people who are going into cleanup space? To protect them, does that then start to condone people going into spaces that they shouldn't be? What do we do with that gap then?

Because people will go in and clean up, regardless of whether we tell them that they can or not. And what are we doing in terms of a cleanup response, if necessary, particularly in public areas around Yarramundi, Nepean, along the river, and some of those wetlands that have a bigger public presence?

Through you, Madam Mayor, I might step in and take this one. So the advice remains from DPIRD to, where appropriate, leave any dead birds in place to decompose naturally. And certainly that is our approach where, you know, you mentioned Nepean and Yarramundi and places like that, that would be the approach, is to allow nature to take its course in that respect. In more high-profile areas, there's a need to balance both the risk to staff, and we've got PPE lined up ready should it be required, but equally it would only be on the basis that staff are properly inducted and comfortable in doing that work as well. The advice, and I'm not a scientist, so I don't know the basis of the advice, I'm a good public servant, so I follow government advice, and that would be what I would be encouraging the public to do, is to avoid—what is it?—detect, avoid, report, something like that.

Avoid, record, report, and to then follow government advice thereafter. One of the things that we have done, which the Executive Manager of Operations alluded to, is to undertake that mapping so that we understand the risk profile, particularly where there's an intersection between, say, dog off-leash areas and wetlands and close proximity to those areas. That's a higher-risk pathway for potential transfer into mammalian populations. And it's those sorts of actions that we're standing by ready to enact should we be required to.

Thank you. That's wonderful. I would imagine the McGrath Hill site with that wetland there would be one of those. Councillor Ryan.

Yeah, thank you, Madam Mayor. Do we have any list or idea of what other animals this disease can be transmitted to? And because it seems pretty vague at the moment, I've done a little bit of background work on it. Is there—I don't want people coming in saying, 'My dog's sick.' If it can't actually get bird flu, do we have a list of what are the possible suspect animals that could be involved in this?

No, there hasn't been any specific information other than speaking generally in terms of mammals. No, we haven't been provided with a list.

I think this will be an area where we update as more information becomes available or when anything happens. So we've got a recommendation. If there's no other questions—oh, sorry, Councillor Reid.

I understand the disease is not transferable to humans. Is that right?

Through you, Madam Mayor, no, it can be transferred to humans, so the risk is low, but it is zoonotic. It can go from animals to humans. I think there have been some fatalities elsewhere in the world. My recollection is that that tends to be where there is underlying health comorbidities. But no, it is absolutely a possibility that it can transfer from animals to humans.

Thank you, Councillor Ridden. Your light is just still on, thanks. Can I ask another follow-up question? Councillor Kotlash.

Madam Mayor, thank you. With our staff, are we only responsible for council areas? Like, people won't ring us up if there's a dead bird on Bells Line of Road, will they? I mean, how is that going to be divvied up?

Through you, Madam Mayor, every land manager is responsible for managing any carcasses on their land. Where, you know, Bells Line of Road, I'm sure Transport for New South Wales and Council will have a heated discussion on exactly where the maintenance boundary is. But what I'd suggest is that for the vast majority of our road network, it would be a case of leaving the carcasses in place to decompose naturally.

So does that mean that there's not really going to be many places that we are going to pick up birds and then dispose of them? Are we going to release the mapping and our sort of areas that we think are higher risk, or is that something that— is a moving feast.

Through you, Madam Mayor, that's a moving feast both in terms of the advice and the understanding that we're developing as we listen to our colleagues in Deepurd and prompted by some of the questions that they're asking, but also then how the disease spreads as well. That would also inform high-risk pathways, and that may change from time to time. And the mapping's purpose is simply to allow us and Deepurd and other agencies to have a bit more structure around our planning, not for any particular action by any other person.

Thank you, everyone. I also note that we have been putting out some informative information to the public, so educating people around the process and what to do is one of the roles we can undertake. There's a recommendation in the business paper. Would anyone like to— Have we done that? Thank you, Councillor Redden. Seconded, Councillor Cotlash. Thank you. All those in favour? Unanimous. Thank you very much. We'll move on to— and thank you, Jackie, for that. We'll move on to general business, and we have some updates from, first of all, from the RFS. Thank you, Ethan.

Thank you, Mayor, Councillors. Good afternoon. I am here today just to give you an update on the RFS Hawkesbury District, where we're at, what's happened recently, and what, I guess, the fire season ahead is looking like. Our focus at the moment remains on preparing our people and equipment, reducing bushfire risk, supporting community preparedness, and maintaining a coordinated response with our emergency management partners. The bushfire danger period commenced on the 1st of October 2026, and during that period, residents in the Hawkesbury and statewide are required to have a fire permit to undertake pile burning on their properties. Additionally, residents must also comply with Hawkesbury Council's open burning requirements, which includes the online notification process, which I'm sure you're all familiar with.

The fire permit and council notification process are separate requirements at the moment, and residents must also notify neighbours adjoining to their property 24 hours beforehand. We continue reinforcing these requirements through our brigades and community engagement activities. So this includes reminding residents to check for permit suspension, total fire bans, and ensuring that the conditions are appropriate before they go ahead. Our brigades continue also to provide this advice where appropriate and assist also our landowners with conducting these burns so that we can ensure they're being done appropriately. Turning to operational activity, the Hawkesbury District crews have attended 1,617 incident calls.

It's around about, that goes from the 25th of September through the 25th of September this year, so over a 12-month period. That compares with 1,413 in the previous reporting period, so we've kind of increased about 20%. These figures cover all incident types, so that includes bushfires, grass fires, structural fires, automatic fire alarms, motor vehicle accidents, and other incidents as well, as well as responding into other local government areas that do surround us. So these statistics reflect the workload undertaken by our crews, and not just solely what we are doing here in the Hawkesbury as well. So that's a significant commitment from our volunteers, and each response means time away from their families, their workplaces, and also the time it takes to undertake training, maintaining the equipment, making sure the truck's ready to go for the next call.

Our crews continue to support neighbouring districts and wider deployments when required. So more notably in recent weeks, local staff have deployed to Glen Innes, with one serving as a deputy incident controller and another as an air observer supporting aviation operations. Several Hawkesbury volunteers also deployed as firefighters to support ongoing firefighting efforts and to provide additional coverage for local brigades in the Glen Innes area. Their assistance allowed local crews who had been working tirelessly to rest and recover while maintaining operational coverage. Our district has also contributed to some international firefighting efforts recently. Between August and mid-September, the district manager deployed to Canada as an incident controller, while another staff member deployed to the United States as a field safety officer.

A Hawkesbury volunteer is also fortunate enough to also serve in France, assisting with aviation operations there. So these deployments demonstrate the skills and experience within our district and the contribution to firefighting efforts both locally and internationally. A significant development in our local risk management work as well is the new Hawkesbury Bushfire Risk Management Plan, which was approved by the Bushfire Coordinating Committee on the 2nd of August 2026. This plan is a strategic document that identifies community assets and values that may be at risk from bushfires. It sets coordinated multi-agency objectives and treatment strategies to ensure, to reduce that risk over a five-year period.

Those strategies include hazard reduction burning, mechanical clearing, targeted community engagement programs, and ignition prevention activities. The treatments that are implemented by member agencies and organisations of the Hawkesbury Bushfire Management Committee, with progress monitored and reported on an ongoing basis. The plan provides a shared framework for identifying priorities and coordinating work across the area. Alongside incident response, we've undertaken a substantial program of prescribed burning in the recent months. Approximately 5,556 hectares were treated across the Hawkesbury between September 2025 and September 2026. So this work represents a combined effort of partner agencies of the Hawkesbury Bushfire Management Committee, working together to plan and deliver treatments that reduce our bushfire risk here.

That work included burns around Collaroy Heights, Kurrajong Heights, Oakville, Blacksons Ridge, Lower Portland, Grose Vale, and you would have seen more recently over the past few weeks, there was numerous burns along the western interface of Bowen Mountain, as well as a cultural burn that occurred down at Shores Creek in Yarramundi. Brigades have also assisted landowners recently with pile burns, contributing to further property protection and local fuel management. These activities require considerable planning and consideration, weather conditions, fuel moisture, smoke impacts, environmental requirements, and crew availability all influence when a burn can safely proceed. We continue working with our land managers and partner agencies to make use of suitable weather windows and deliver treatments that protect communities and support firefighting operations.

Vegetation is also recovering in burnt areas from the 2019-20 fire season. As these fuels recover and dry, they can again support sustained fire behaviour. We cannot assume that previously burnt areas will provide a reliable barrier to fire spread or an advantage for fire suppression. Our planning that's in place now reflects current fuel conditions, includes changes across previously burnt landscapes while ensuring that prescribed burns comply with the environmental thresholds and requirements that apply to each site on its own. Drying fuels and rainfall deficiencies are increasing the potential for difficult firefighting conditions. We continue to monitor the Bureau of Meteorology forecasts alongside local conditions to guide our operational readiness throughout the upcoming fire season.

The Hawkesbury District has revised its operational readiness arrangements for the 2026-2027 fire season. These more so are some arrangements that apply more at the tactical level that our brigades follow and that we use locally to coordinate our crews. And these arrangements also provide a consistent approach to preparation and response, with resources and readiness measures adjusted to forecast fire danger and local conditions, in line with the Commissioner's intent for this bushfire season. So I'm not sure if you would have seen on Facebook or social media the Commissioner's intent for this fire season is always safe, communities ready to act, protect life, infrastructure and assets, reduce impacts and provide relief, be ready and act early, and a one team coordinated response.

So that applies to all districts across the state of New South Wales, and we're working locally to meet that. We will continue using our Category 9 striker, or rapid response fleet that we're fortunate to have here in the Hawkesbury, on days of elevated fire danger. These allow us.

To have an immediate response to bush and grass fires. These smaller firefighting vehicles provide a rapid initial response. They help establish the location of fires and their behaviour, and allows crews to access before heavier vehicles arrive. On days of the fire behaviour index where it exceeds 35, the New South Wales RFS will also typically position a firefighting helicopter at Bankstown for immediate dispatch to bush or grass fires within its response area. This includes the Hawkesbury local government area and its surrounding districts across Greater Sydney. So it's a very useful asset for us to have. That helicopter can reach fires quickly across our area, commence water bombing, and communicate directly with Hawkesbury Fire Control by radio, providing timely information about the fire's size, its behaviour, and how crews can get in and access.

The water bombing alone helps slow the rate of fire spread while crews get on scene. Combined with our Cat 9 striker and rapid response vehicles and supporting tankers, this capability provides a strong coordinated initial attack on bush and grass fires. Early detection remains another area of our focus. Smoke detection cameras have been installed at Kurrajong Heights and have been operating since around August 2025, and will continue supporting the district this season. They provide an additional means of identifying potential fires and bringing them to the attention of operational personnel. We have also progressed vehicle communications upgrades to improve connectivity in remote locations and when existing infrastructure is disrupted.

Together with established communications plans, these improvements support coordination during larger or more complex incidents. Our current firefighting fleet comprises of 94 vehicles and other fleet assets, including firefighting appliances, personnel carriers, command vehicles, trailers and supporting equipment. Our capability also extends to managing urban and structural fire risks. While we have three urban firefighting pumpers across the district that specialise in responding to structural fires, these are also supported by a large fleet of Category 1 tankers, which are also equipped to combat these types of incidents as well. We continue maintaining our equipment and developing our members' skills to ensure we can respond effectively to both bushfire and structural fire incidents across the Hawkesbury.

Our training and volunteer development remains central to our capability, and members commit substantial time to maintaining their skills, supported by their instructors, assessors and personnel who organise and deliver the training. We also maintain a strong focus on member welfare, fatigue management and relief arrangements, and this is a big thing with people trying to juggle families and time and work and things like that at the moment. Community engagement has also been another positive part of our preparation this fire season. Get Ready Weekend was a local success, which you would have seen recently throughout social media and other channels as well. We had around 19 brigades across the Hawkesbury hosting or participating in events.

So considering we have around 23 brigades, 19 of them getting out there in their local community is a great number. These events provide a valuable opportunity for our Hawkesbury members of the public to meet with their local brigade, discuss their bushfire risk, which is specific to their area. Residents were also able to ask questions about preparing their properties, developing a bushfire survival plan, understanding fire danger ratings and deciding when to leave. Those conversations help make preparedness practical. People can discuss their own circumstances with members who understand the local area, terrain and community. The events also gave residents an opportunity to learn more about work of their brigade and the volunteers who respond when help is needed.

We're continuing that engagement throughout this season, including promoting the RFS's campaign, One Ember Can End It. This campaign highlights the risk of ember attack and the importance of preparing homes. Before a fire occurs, embers can threaten properties ahead of the main fire front. Making routine preparation is an important part of reducing losses. Throughout our brigade's public information activities, we continue encouraging residents to prepare their homes, discuss their fire plans with their family members, and make arrangements for pets, livestock, and anyone who may need assistance. We also promote access to official warnings and information through Hazards Near Me and other established official channels.

Alongside this community work, we continue coordinating with Council, other emergency services and land management agencies, sharing information about emerging risks and maintaining operational links needed for our actual fire response. Our priorities remain clear for this fire season: protect life, support communities, prepare and act early, respond safely and effectively, and work closely with our partners to reduce the impact of emergencies across the Hawkesbury. I'd like to acknowledge our volunteers, their families and employers for the commitment that makes this work possible, and also thank Council and our other emergency management partners that are here today. Thank you, and happy to take any questions.

Thank you so much. Can I just say thank you also on behalf of the community to all the volunteers who are so highly valued, and we thank all of them for their dedication and for going above and beyond, particularly as they're taking on those roles across the state and internationally. It's an amazing contribution, and each and every one of them is so valued. So thank you, and also thank you for updating us on that. The feedback that— That that I had from the Get Ready weekend was very positive. Councillor Wheeler and I attended the Blacksands Ridge brigade, and they were actually called out to a fire, but there were some of them left there, but also for outlining the risks and around the information that you're giving to the community. So I thank you wholeheartedly for that presentation, and we'll go to questions. Councillor Kotlash. Thank you, Madam Mayor

Thank you, Ethan. That was really, really interesting. You wrapped it up really nicely. I thought I knew all of that, and you taught me some things, so thank you. I've got a couple of questions. When you were talking about the hazard reduction that you have done from September last year to now, were you able to get what you had planned done? Are you happy with the progress that you've made?

Yeah, I believe that we've made a very good impact on our annual works program as part of the Bushfire Management Committee. I would say that across the Hawkesbury, comparatively to a lot of other parts in the state, I would consider our actual completion rate of burns is probably higher than most. We've done a really good job this year, or in the last 12 months, I should say, in terms of preparing for the fire season with HR burns. We've really knocked a lot of those off, which is great to see. It's, I would say, more than some previous years, that's for sure.

And you started earlier this year. Is that correct? We

I would say yes, to a degree. It's hard to really put a timeline on when we start and finish burns. We really went into this year looking at, you know, every day is a day that we want to try and do a burn unless it's not. So we'd look at each day as it came and, you know, is this burn ready? Has it got the right environmental conditions met? Is it ready to go? Have we got control lines cut? Have we got the manpower to do it? Are the weather conditions within the prescription that we're allowed to burn within in terms of intensity? So there's a number of factors, and if we get a day where all those things line up and we can do it, likely we would give it a go. So that's enabled us to really get a strong head start in burning off this year.

It's good. Thank you. Second question, and this might be me getting the wrong impression of how the RFS works, but in , well , when the 2019-2020 fires were on, I live in Kurrajong Heights, so it was all happening, and we were going to have Christmas in the Northern Beaches, which got canned. But anyway, so we were hanging around, and I thought , I'll go and do something. I'll help somehow . Naturally, I'm not a member of the—well, I wasn't then, and I maybe won't do that. But I wanted to help, and there wasn't really any avenue to do that because, well , I sort of did help out a bit, but I really shouldn't have been in the shed . But anyway, that's a long story. My question is, while I went to a few meetings, and the information was that you have to do kind of the training, which was this blanket training to be able to do anything in any task within RFS.

And at the time I was working and, you know, being a councillor and I was super busy, and I thought, I don't think I'm Wonder Woman. I won't do this yet. But I can wash a truck, and I can feed—well, I think feeding people is a bit risky because we had a crew have that incident of food poisoning, so we possibly won't go there. But I can wash a truck, I can clean a shed, and I can drive people home. I can pick up, you know, like all of those sorts of things. Has the RFS— Are they thinking about how to get more people that don't necessarily have the ability or strength or capability of fighting fires to just give you guys a break when you need it?

Yeah, so I think locally, we probably are at a point where we'll struggle to, in some areas, just allow the public to come in. And as much as everyone wants to band together, and that's the community spirit of where we live, but I think, you know, you've got challenges around insurance and coverage for people and the public, you know, depending on what they're doing. We've noted that there is those people that are also not really wanting to go out on the fire truck as such and combat fires. So in the last 12 months in the district, we started up a district support group, it's called. So, yeah, you might be able to come and join that. But essentially, its purpose isn't a frontline firefighting brigade, but more so a group of people that we can call upon to, hey, this truck needs to be moved from this station to a staging area.

These people need picking up from the airport and taken out to a base camp. Food needs to be taken out to the firefighters on the ground. This toilet trailer needs to be taken out to scene. So all those jobs that where often firefighters were getting pulled off trucks to go and do as well, we can now get those other people that are willing to help in that field. So, yeah. Hawkesbury District Support Group. Yep, that's the one. No problem.

Thank you. That's wonderful. That's wonderful. Oh, sorry. Yep. Your

Lights. A bogong moths affected by smoke?

I'll take that

On notice. It was a trick question. Sorry, I'm just fascinated with bogong moths. I'm not.

I don't have the answer to that one, unfortunately. I

Just thought to myself, I wondered whether, you know, you're getting ready for a hazard reduction and somebody says, ‘No, sorry, you can't do it. There's bogong moths.’ But anyway, thank you I was being a bit silly. Thank you so much for your presentation. It was really good. Thank

You. Thank you. Any further questions from Councillor Ridd? Yes, thank you

Madam Mayor. Thank you for your informative presentation, Evan. It was wonderful. I'd just like to say that I recently attended Richmond High School, and we had the cadet RFS students from the local high schools, and I was most impressed with the numbers who were training to come on as volunteers and help in the future. It was wonderful.

Yeah, thank you. The cadet program that we have locally is extremely successful. We have five schools that we integrate with, so we've got a team of volunteers that go across the five local schools. We try and get kids, I guess, in that, I believe a lot of them are Year 10 and things like that, but we do a lot of training with them. Usually it's to replace one of the other things like sport, and they will learn how to do basic firefighting. They learn about teamwork, camaraderie, volunteering. So it's not just the RFS they visit, but we take them out to the SES. We take them out to Fire and Rescue and other agencies around the Hawkesbury as well and show them the importance of emergency services.

So we've seen a good uptake of volunteers from that as well, actually joining us after the cadet program in school, and we're finding it as being a really useful way to bring youth through and into the volunteer ranks.

Fantastic. Thank you, Councillor Wheeler. Thanks, Madam Mayor. I should declare that I'm a member of Hawkesbury Communications Brigade, and my son is a member of Wilberforce Brigade. They're both below the threshold for significance, so I'll stay in the chamber. I didn't realise this was going to be on the business paper, and I didn't want to interrupt Mr Parker. A couple of questions. How, when is the red fleet handover happening, and what are the likely implications of that, aside from us not having to depreciate the costs of it?

Sure. So at this point in time, we've obviously seen the announcements from the PAC inquiry. In terms of finer details, I don't have the exact details. I have a rough timeline that I'm aware of, which was that I believe from anywhere between 2027 to 2029, the RFS is trying to, over three years, trying to slowly stage a transition of fleet over to RFS. So that's a statewide thing. So I can't say that anywhere between those years Hawkesbury Council will cut off, but I know that they're trying to bring aboard—

Some trucks in small doses to eventually figure out how they can maintain them and keep up with the demand. The RFS is at the moment hiring a number of positions like mechanics and fleet maintenance supervisors and mobile mechanics and things like that as well to support it. So it's kind of ever since the announcement, the RFS has really dropped and ran in terms of we need to get these positions filled, we need to come up with the plans and make it all work. So it's all in motion at the moment, and I'm sure some more clarity will come out once they reach out to council.

So hurry up and wait. Yeah Yep. How are we going? Do we have any information around diesel supply and how is that affecting? I know it has impact on our fleet as well. How does that impact on the red fleet?

Sure. So there's been an ongoing liquid fuel emergency operations centre that's been established at Parramatta. That's been going on for quite a few months now, and as part of that, they've been monitoring the impacts of diesel shortages associated with the ongoing conflicts in the Middle East, Strait of Hormuz, etc. As far as we're concerned, the RFS has pre-located some strategic caches of diesel around the state. If we do need to tap into that, we can. But at the moment, we're not too concerned with our supply of diesel to look after our trucks into the fire season. We have preemptively done things, but we've had liaison officers positioned in that liquid fuel EOC in the past to ensure that if there is fires or there is some kind of emergency, the RFS is able to get that immediate point of contact with someone at the higher levels to redirect fuel if needed.

Great, thank you. And final question: how are we going for volunteer numbers of people who can get on a truck, not just be on the books?

Yeah, sure. Volunteer numbers, I mean, across the Hawkesbury, we have around about 1,800, 2,000 members. But in terms of getting on the trucks, it can vary day to day for us. I think locally we're actually doing really well. Some of the people that seem to be in the brigades in Hawkesbury are either local business owners and things like that, which enables them to turn brigades out. I know, however, that some other districts are struggling with numbers, but I would suggest that locally, from what I've seen in the past sort of 12 months and things like that, we're doing pretty well. Yeah.

Thanks. It's an interesting—it's something that we don't think about when we think about the local economy and where people are employed and how that pans out. That's one of the things that we don't consider. And yet we know that the whole area apart from North Richmond, the whole area west of the river, the property protection comes from volunteers. And we can see across some of the brigades that it's an affordability issue as well as the housing affordability bites. We have fewer people who are able to get on trucks because they're mortgaged. They can't afford to walk away from work for a few hours each day. So all of these things, we tend not to think about as decision makers, as people who function in a strategic planning space, and yet they have all these knock-on effects, including into property protection and emergency management. Thanks.

Yeah, and to add to that as well, it's definitely, as newer people to the Hawkesbury move into the area, I don't think they necessarily are aware or understand the importance of volunteering as you go into more rural communities. That's typically how a lot of services are delivered, whether it be SES, RFS, or even the Fire and Rescue Retain system as well. That's how it all operates, and it's important that we just keep advertising that to people that do move in here that these things are reliant on them.

Thank you so much for that presentation. We'll move on now. Ask another question. A quick one.

Sorry. Ethan, do we know, has there been any data collected on the cost to our volunteers in terms of, you know, their livelihoods?

So the RFS has just this, sorry, for the month of September, the RFS, for I guess the first time in as far as I've been around in the RFS, has released a volunteer belonging survey. And the purpose of that survey was sent to all members across the state, and as part of it, they're looking at, you know, motivations for volunteering. Why you volunteer, what drew you into joining the brigade, how does this impact, how does your volunteering impact your personal life, how does that impact your work, what's the financial implications, how much do they earn as a household, and they're trying to really dig into, you know, what volunteering really means and how it impacts people in this day and age with all sorts of different cost of living pressures.

So that closed on the 1st of October. So at the moment, I haven't seen any data come back, but conveniently it's a thing, and I believe across the Hawkesbury District, despite how many volunteers we do have, we only had around about, I would say, between 160 to 200 submissions. But that was fairly consistent with a lot of areas in the state. Volunteers don't as well find the need to get on these things and fill in surveys, but at least we've got a reasonable number that have, so

No problem .

Maybe too busy to do a survey. Thank you so much for that, Mr Parker. And we'll now have an update from Kevin Jones. Thank you from the SES. Thank you

Thank you, Madam Mayor and Councillors. Thank you for inviting me to come and have a bit of an update for what SES has been doing and where we're at. We're a much smaller organisation than Ethan's RFS. We have only about around about 100 or so volunteers in the Hawkesbury, and being the combat agency for floods and storms. A little bit of what I'll talk about first is basically what the outlook is for the likelihood of flooding, and it's pretty obvious with the current conditions that it's pretty dry , and the likelihood of getting any sort of riverine flooding is lower than it normally would be. September was the second warmest September since records have begun, and we had lower than average rainfall in September.

Soil moisture is low, stream flows are down, so the outlook for the coming months is tempered by that. This is all information that I've mined from the Bureau and the climate stuff out of the Bureau, but the likelihood of above-average rainfall during October is not very high. It's likely to be quite dry still in October. There's a possibility of above-average rainfall later in the year, in November, December. But it's still very much dependent on what happens with the influence of El Nino and Indian Ocean Dipole, which traditionally makes things dry. We have a very diverse catchment in the area, and the areas that influence the Hawkesbury-Nepean for flooding particularly reach right from the Lower Hunter all the way down to Goulburn.

So, and when you look at all the forecast rainfall predicted for those few months, it does vary a lot. It's quite dry in the south and a little bit wet in the north. So there may be some rain, but it's not nothing that is startling that makes me stay awake at night worrying about it. So I think we're in for more of a bushfire season than a flooding season. Temperatures will be above average with the chance of heatwave conditions in the warmer months. And like I said, the El Nino and Indian Ocean Dipole influence is making those conditions like that. So what does that actually mean for our community when it comes to storms and floods? So with the higher temperatures, that means severe thunderstorms are likely or possible, and they're a bit tricky because they're very unpredictable and really hard to predict with any certainty too far in advance.

The good thing is that in the last 12, 18 months, that the storm warnings are now appearing on the Hazards Near Me app that the community has access to. And so that's been happening for quite a while now. I think it's about 18 months. So yes, storms will remain a risk the whole time, and with storms comes that flash flooding that we experience with storms sometimes, and they're very hard to predict and very hard to... We just have to be ready to manage that, which our ongoing operational readiness ensures that. With flooding, due to the dry conditions, then the flood risk is tempered with low soil moistures and low stream flows. However, as we know, it only takes an east coast low of some significance and we can have a flood fairly quickly.

In relative terms for us, over a few days we can end up with mainstream flooding. So the risk's always there for us with that as well. So what are we as the SES doing in the Hawkesbury? In the year to date, we've attended about 300 incidents, which are all operational incidents, including storm events, minor storm events that we've had, rescues, road crash rescues, general land rescues, supporting the police with land searches both in the Hawkesbury and in surrounding areas. There's a few high-profile searches happened in the last few months that we've supported. We're doing ongoing operational readiness and preparedness for both our equipment and our people, ongoing training and exercising for the volunteers.

Continual community engagement to raise awareness and encourage good preparedness and decision-making in the community when floods and storms are imminent. Our volunteers are actually spending quite a lot. We get a lot of requests from schools to go and visit them, and that's quite effective. Start young and brainwash people into realising they need to take notice of the fact that we do live on a floodplain and that we need to make good decisions and be very situation aware of where we live and what our risks are. So that's working quite well, and we're working to build the number of people in our unit, the volunteers that can go out and do that. It's a big push for us at the moment, and it's supported quite well by the community engagement staff from Metro Zone and State Headquarters.

We've had an ongoing equipment replacement program. In the last couple of years, we've had three of our SES flood rescue vessels replaced in the past couple of years with new vessels to replace aging fleet. And we're also about to begin a small upgrade to the facilities at our unit headquarters at Wilberforce with improved car parking and lighting for safety and security of our volunteers when they're parked there and coming and going on training nights and so on. And that's pretty much where we're at as far as preparedness and that goes, just making sure that we are prepared. There's ongoing training , particularly in flood rescue, making sure people are fit for role has become a big focus with SES now.

There's been a national program amongst all the emergency services to make sure that people are actually fit enough and well enough to do the tasks that are involved in going and swimming in floodwater or driving a flood boat or going and doing storm damage work or going to a road crash rescue or whatever they do. And so there's timeframes. Everyone has to go and do certain tasks which are being matched by experts much smarter than me about things that they need to do to make sure that they're good to go. Things like lifting and carrying and doing pack tests and other things to ensure that people are fit and well enough to do the job. So we're also trying to make sure that we get all of the messages out into the big wide world in our community through the SES website, with making sure people are aware that there's flood maps and home emergency plans, templates, and all sorts of other resources on preparing and knowing their risk.

There's all the various social media platforms, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. I'm not sure how reliable they are these days, but with , what is it, the super intelligence that Donald talks about. The BOM website, and for all the weather and climate detailed information. And then, as I mentioned, the hazards near me app, including storm warnings now, which is great, as well as all the other tsunami and flood warnings that are already in there. And SES is also the new emergency alert that they tested a while ago, so SES has access to that as well to reach the masses.

And

I would also just like to thank you for the opportunity to come and talk to everybody here, and to thank our volunteers and the families and employers of the volunteers that support what we do. It makes the job a lot easier when we get the support that we do from council as well. Council is very supportive of us, and also our sister agencies. It's always heartening to see how well we work together when the chips are down and there's an emergency and things need to be done, and it's all done very efficiently and also with the best outcome always the intent of everyone concerned. So thank you.

Thank you, Kevin, and as for the RFS, thank you to your volunteers and for all the work they do as well. I just had a question about the emergency alert. Was there any feedback on how successful that was? I know I got it, but I did know a couple of people that didn't, so I don't know if that was older phones.

I didn't get it. Oh

You didn't ? Well, hopefully someone would ring and tell you anyway.

It is. Oh, I didn't get it on an SES device, so there you go. Okay. I don't really know. I could find out what— Yeah, no, just out of interest,

Because some people were saying, ‘Oh, I didn't even get it,’ or whatever. So I

Believe that they claimed it was quite successful.

Okay. Yeah.

Whoever it is that's doing the emergency alert, but— Okay. Yeah. Well

That's good to know.

Councillor [unclear]. Fine tuning. Thanks, Madam Mayor. The other day I was watching the telly and I had the sound off, so I don't know where this was, but it was a scene of a tornado ripping umbrellas off a— where was it? Anyway

And I thought,

Tornadoes? Is there—am I missing something? Is tornado—are we starting to use the language of tornado?

It was actually like a waterspout, I think, is very common. If you look up waterspout in any of the Bureau stuff, it talks about what a waterspout is. It's a mini tornado, and it's a direct result of a thunderstorm. Yeah, yeah. So it's

Different from a cyclone. Yes . My understanding was a tornado is small and much, you know, like if you're in the path. A cyclone is

A massive thing.

But my question for you is, do the public, will they know if you say a tornado is, I don't know, do you predict tornadoes?

No, it's all, it's always, the Bureau always issues warnings for severe thunderstorms.

Right.

And they may come as a result of the activity in the atmosphere, and it's not uncommon to see it out in the ocean where there's a waterspout because of the differences in temperature and the way the air moves around But in a storm situation like that, it's really, really difficult to predict it. And some people call them mini cyclones, but it's actually part of the air movement in a storm, a thunderstorm.

I guess the reason I'm asking you is because that bit of footage, they didn't take their umbrellas down. Like, they didn't. They just, Oh yeah, that'll be all right. And I think the chairs might, I don't know, fleeting.

No, well, they need to go and look at our SES website and see all the information, what you're supposed to do to prepare for storms.

Yeah, yeah, put everything down

So that's a classic example of what I was saying about they're very difficult to predict exactly where they're going to impact, and they happen very quickly. And so people being prepared for that sort of stuff. When you see the dark clouds on the horizon, like at the wedding I was at the other day, there were dark clouds, so we all had to get an extra beer in case the bar fell over. So, yeah, just when you see those signs, if you do have umbrellas and all that sort of stuff, pack them away before the storm hits. But they're very difficult to predict, and people have all sorts of different names for things like willy-willies and mini cyclones and so on.

Thanks, Kev. GG, want to say something, General Manager?

I threw you, Madam Mayor. Not only that 15 years of Weather Geeks was about to come out, but we in Australia, we absolutely get many tornadoes every year. They're most commonly in the far-flung, unpopulated areas, regional and remote parts of Australia. But yeah, they're surprisingly common in Australia, and they are a specific thing. And I think the BOM might have actually since come out and declared that the event at Ulladulla was indeed a tornado, which is distinctly different and far more dangerous than a waterspout or a willy-willy.

Thank you. Councillor Ryan.

Look, thank you, and I've got to thank Ethan for his efforts, and especially at Pitt Town the other day. They did a great job, the SES—correction, the RFS—with the young people. Kevin and I have known each other for far too long. We've been through a few incidents with each other, and I think the main thing that comes up with all the time is, and I've got two things, is educating people. We have such a turnover of people, especially where I am, of trying to educate them, trying to keep everything. We have so many small villages that have smaller different types of incidents in them, and we need to be able to address each one of them as they come up. I know where I'm at, we've got a large turnover of people, and some people don't even realise it floods.

You know, we're going to say, you know, this road gets cut, and, well, what are the blue signs up there for from our road? Well, you're going to find out, and that sort of stuff. So I think— We had an incident there where some, unfortunately , some information was given out that wasn't correct, and there was pure mistake. Can't blame anyone. But we actually got a chap from the RFS to stand in front of the local shop and give the correct information out, and the people accepted that 100%. A, he was right in the middle of the town. He was dressed in a uniform, and they listened. Where we had a lot of other people just saying, Oh, the flood won't go past this point. I think we've got to set up something where we get direct, straight information from the horse's mouth to these people, which is, I think, a really important thing for us to do.

And I know it's going to be difficult, but I think with all our little places like Colo Heights and Upper Colo and all that, they all have a small different evacuation route. There's some people still in Pitt Town don't even know where the evacuation route is, and we only had a flood a couple of years back. The new people come in. So I think it's a constant thing, and I think we, I hope we can set it up with council's communication staff. Perhaps we get some videos that are short, sharp, and tell them, if you're going on People of Pitt Town, this is how you get out in a flood. You go here, here, here, and here. Or people at Sackville, don't go this way, go that way. I think we've got to start addressing it for the right information for exactly the right spot.

If you could take that on board, I'd really appreciate it, and if we could work on that. And also through you, Madam Mayor, how are we going with our flood evacuation routes? Are we sort of up to grade with them, or are we— Still dragging the chain a bit.

Through you, Madam Mayor, Transport for New South Wales were developing the business case for various upgrades to the evacuation route network. I have recently requested an update from them. I haven't received that today, or as at today. The last I'd heard, it was going through the Infrastructure New South Wales assurance process.

Okay, look, thank you for that. And Kevin, thank you for what you do, mate. Great job. Thank you, and all your troops.

Thank you, Councillor Wheeler. Thanks

I just want to note a couple of things that Mr Jones has said. Firstly, that heat waves are likely, and I think we probably need to revisit our heat wave response. We do have a couple of actions in place. Whether they're still adequate, and whether we want to upgrade any of those. And I noticed that thunderstorm, increased thunderstorms as well. And I think this goes back to that preparedness question as well. We probably need a piece on—I think people have thought a lot about flooding. I think they've thought quite a lot about fire. Don't know that they've thought about what they're supposed to do in the case, particularly of thunderstorms. And people are guaranteed to do really stupid things when an emergency is on just because they're stressed and they panic, and everybody gets a bit revved up.

And there's nothing like a choice bit of social media to rev up the punters as well and have them out doing all the wrong things. So if we could prepare some information, I think that would be helpful. I think we also need to have clear our actions on—I remember when we had that big storm, that storm cell that hit Glossodia, and we had all of that damage. It was loads of work for the SES and RFS volunteers in that space. And then Council came through and helped with the cleanup as well. We're going to need to mobilise that sort of activity, I think, if we end up with a similar— With a similar set of storms, I think the school visits are really interesting, and I know there was that push to put the flooding of the Hawkesbury-Nepean into the school curriculum, and I wonder if that's made people a little bit more aware as well, or is this just more of a get ready thing?

You reminded me of an event that I went to not long ago. I was asked to be a judge at a thing they call a hackathon, which is primary school kids for a couple of days and then senior high school kids for a couple of days. And the task that they were given a whole lot of information about disasters, and it was particularly about flooding. The SES gave them a big dump of information, told them where to find all the resources, and then they had to come up with a campaign to make their school and then create something which they can then give to all the surrounding schools to make the school and the families and the community aware of the risk they live in and what they can do. And the things that those kids come up with is absolutely amazing, things I'd never thought of, and the slogans and the things that they come up with, all the SES people that were there were just writing continually saying, I've never thought of that before.

So the brains out there, when you give them the opportunity, they really do latch onto it. And so that's one of the keys with going to schools and continuing with that, because they're the community of the future, and they also have a lot of influence on their parents when they talk about around the dinner table. It's like, Oh, we didn't realise all these things that the kids learnt while they're doing this hackathon thing, which has become an annual event, and it's run by the, for all the special schools, the one that's at the Ag College.

The centre of excellence.

There we go. Yes, where I am.

Thanks for that, Kevin. Thanks, Kevin.

Just a couple of other things. The emergency alert, for people who didn't get it, it seems largely people whose phones were—it came in on the very latest phone update. So if you're like me and you don't have automatic updates turned on, you didn't get it. And so my mother got it. I just set up her phone. We were— I was staying with her at the time. She got it. She was very excited. My phone didn't get it. She thought that she was delighted with that, that her tech was better than mine. But that's what's happened for lots of people. So it's a good reminder to keep your phone up to date. And just the same question I asked Ethan: how are your volunteer numbers going?

I'll just talk about emergency alert for a second, about one of the things that I've been really pushing for a long time, and I'm just one of 230 SES units across the state that are trying to change things a little bit. But the importance of the multi-layered approach that SES takes for issuing warnings. So Hazards Near Me is one way of doing it. Emergency alert is another, through all the social media, through the mainstream radio stations, you know, the ABC and so on. And the importance of having accurate information in the evacuation warnings, and then also them being timely. And if they're timely, then that also gives us the final layer of all of the methods that we use to warn people is to go and physically knock on doors.

And in some of the floods we had in the 20s, 2021, 22, and so on, we, the SES got a little bit busy with how they created all that stuff and distributed it, and they were sending us the evacuation orders and warnings a little bit too late for us to go and do door knocks. And so it's a big priority, and everyone's aware of it. I've had lots of conversations with, as far as I can go in the SES organisation, the commissioner and so on, and everyone's on board to make sure that this is all done in a timely manner, because we have discovered in door knocking places like we did at McGrath Hill, I forget which year it was, but we uncovered a lot of people that are not physically capable of getting themselves out of there, and the evacuation route was already cut when we were doing this door knocking, which is a bit sort of, the timing wasn't right.

We lost a couple of hours somewhere. So we managed that because we knew about it, and it was actually a group of defence people that uncovered a lot of these things and brought it back to us and said, You realise these people in these addresses can't go anywhere. They have no means to evacuate. So the full suite of all the different warning systems, including emergency alert when it works properly, is very essential, plus the added layer that we must do, which is go and physically contact all the properties that are going to be isolated or inundated. So, yeah.

Thanks for that. Volunteer numbers was the question.

Sorry. We have about 95 volunteers in Hawkesbury on our books, but we do have, there's something like about three or four thousand volunteers in the Sydney metro area, and a lot of those— From units which are not flood impacted at all, so we have a huge workforce that we can get here if they can get.

Here, to help us to do things like the door knocking and the contacting people and stuff like that. So, providing we get all the information in a timely manner, we can manage it with that. But yeah, in the Hawkesbury, it's about 90, and sometimes it's never enough and sometimes it's too many, depending on what the day of the week is. Does

That, bringing in that fit for role testing, is that likely to turn people off? I'm

Reflecting on my

Enthusiasm for physical

Training tests when I was younger. It's interesting. It's a double-edged sword. It has actually made some people go to the gym, and it's also made some people question whether they should be doing what they're doing, which is a good thing because we're probably, if they're not right, then they shouldn't be. The chance of someone injuring themselves or becoming gravely ill, overexerting themselves or whatever at a job or an incident that we go to, we're just trying to prevent that from happening before it happens. But yeah, it hasn't really affected our numbers. If it has, it's only been very minor changes, and it's probably, if nothing else, it's probably made everyone fitter. Everyone needs an incentive. Can

Always live in hope. Thanks, Kevin . That's a great update. Thanks, Kevin. Just to what Councillor Ryan raised around the information coming from a trusted source, I think Stephen Yeo has done some research around that, some social research, which is very interesting about the importance of having information such as that delivered by somebody who's trusted within the community. So that's definitely something to look more at, not that you can be in 50 places at once, I get that.

There is a big push in the community engagement world in SES to have , like, the local faces are the ones that are telling people, not someone

From afar. I think that was evident at some points in the fires. But thanks for that, Kevin. Thanks for that great update, and thanks for your work that you do.

Madam Mayor, I had a question.

Oh, sorry,

Deputy Mayor. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'm going to reveal my ignorance. About some things, but it's in the service of, I suppose, expressing a desire that we're all better acquainted with the flowchart of responsibility when there's a significant disaster event. So floods and fires, hopefully still relatively rare. Relatively more common would be a significant storm event, for example, where there might be localised flooding, trees down, houses or buildings unroofed, and so forth. And I now reflect that I've got a fairly nebulous understanding about who responds to what. Immediate hazards like trees down or lines down might be met by any of the RFS, the SES, the police or council, even if it's just to close off the road and restrict traffic.

Then there are utilities that are engaged to come and safe the area and begin the process of repairs. If houses are unroofed and dwellings are uninhabitable, there's the question of evacuation centres and then attending to people's welfare. There's the work that you guys do to evacuate or to— So I'm thinking of that constellation of activity that occurs, and I've never really seen a kind of large visual guide about who's invoked to engage those various facets of a storm event, whether it's wires, utilities, localised flooding, damage to buildings or otherwise. And I wonder whether in time we could be furnished with a guide like that, because when a storm event comes, I just trust that people are on the job.

But now that I'm in— This seat, I feel like I'd like to know more about that. Does that make sense? Yep,

Yeah, I completely understand. It's a really good question. So there's a thing called a local emergency management committee that meets about three or four times a year, and it's made up of senior council staff or representatives from all of the emergency

Services plus— Still at the party. The LEMC is made up of all the different services plus all the support agencies, all the welfare agencies. So it's a huge committee. And so one of the spinoffs, which happens during floods and can happen in big storms or in big bushfire events as well, basically it's there to take care of any disaster that happens in the Hawkesbury . There's a thing called an EOC. So, going back a step, the person who actually is the sponsor or is in charge of the LEMC is actually the local area commander for the police. And so he or she has support from council as a local emergency management officer to be like an admin and support person for that. And between the LEMC and the combat agency for whatever the disaster is, the decision can be made: we need to stand up the EOC, and then the emergency operations centre, which— is normally at Windsor Police Station.

It will do all the things that the RFS or the SES or whatever the agency is responsible. It'll do all the other things that's around, like getting stuff, the community back to normality, restoring access, restoring utilities, getting more resources for SES or RFS or whoever to do the job they need to do to

Make things safe again. And

So that whole system is the emergency management system in New South Wales, how it works. And so it's a bit of a collaborative thing between the combat agency and the LEMC, and then the LEMC is supported by a region and then a state emergency management system.

Thank you, Kevin. I knew bits of what you've just described. I suppose the take-home, Madam Mayor, is that it would be beneficial for all councillors if we knew more about that system and maybe some time could be given over to a future briefing.

We

Could.

There is also the online training. I've done the online training from the government, which is about emergency management, so you can do that course online.

I'd welcome being

Pointed

Towards

That. It's very informative. But yes, if councillors wanted more information on that, that could be prepared.

We could talk about state disaster plans and all that sort of stuff. We won't do that now, but the state disaster plan sets the framework for how all that works.

I suppose my question also arose from a desire to get a sense of when a medium-sized disaster, like a storm event happens, the relative burden that falls on SES, RFS, police, other emergency responders, then councillors as an organisation, and then other organisations as utilities, and where that burden tends to fall the greatest.

In a typical storm event, our people would be talking to council, RFS, Transport for New South Wales, police, ambos, depending on what the circumstance is, if someone's— needs access and we can't give it to them, or if someone's trapped inside somewhere and an ambulance needs to get to them, all that sort of thing happens just as a matter of the way that we all work together. And we'll often be talking to the fire control centre and they'll talk to us about stuff they've done and seen and found and likewise. And then when it becomes beyond that, then it gets scaled up to the LEMC or the EOC level, and then that can also grow to a region or a state level, depending on the disaster. Thank you, Kevin

Councillor Cutlash. Can I just make a comment? Early in our, well, in 2016 when I was first elected, we actually had Phil, I can't remember his last name, give us a presentation. He was with police. He was with the police at the time before he came over to council, and I've always remembered it because it's just that you have to get that thing in your head. So it probably is on our files, but we could have a refresher of that. That was really good. And there's, yeah, there's some— He did it in such a way that it was really easy to understand, and we probably all do need a refresher. Thanks. Thank you

That position that Phil had then is still there. There's still a person or persons doing that job, so it's probably quite achievable to do that.

Okay, well, thank you very much for those presentations. Those updates are very valuable for us. Thank you also for the ambulance for attending, and I acknowledge the attendance also of the acting station officer—no, acting superintendent, sorry—Belinda Callaghan from New South Wales Ambulance. Thank you for coming, and thank you everybody for attending today. Unless there's anything, Councillor Wheeler has something to raise. I have two things.

Could we, given that we're a bit light on, could we next time do a bit of a rearrangement and have the agencies sit with us? It seems a bit—I'm sure that it's helping Kevin with his fit-for-role preparations, but, you know, it's a bit daft to have someone have to stand up there while we all sit around here. It just, it doesn't—it's not the vibe we're going for, I think. There was also a question that Councillor Cotlash asked around how do you help that, that I think we probably need to expand on a little bit, and maybe we need to join with the other agencies to talk about individual preparedness and how people help, because the key thing is to be prepared yourself so that you're not a burden on any of the agencies if you can possibly help it.

And that includes things like property protection, but it also includes things like knowing what you would do if the power goes out, knowing, you know, having some food, having some stuff you can cook. I noticed there's someone who's posted on Facebook today asking about whether people would like to get together or have some sort of informal network around preparedness, and I think that's a really key question that people need to really start thinking about. Then the next step is to help your neighbours, and we heard Kevin talk about how there are some people who simply can't evacuate. The best people to help them are the people who live next door, if they're capable. So being prepared yourself gives you extra capacity to help somebody else.

Really basic stuff like stay off the road. You know, don't be on the road if there's a flood. Don't go rubbernecking. Don't, you know, don't be driving around for nothing in a storm just because you feel like it, or because it might be more entertaining because the telly's not working. Get Hazards Near Me on your phone and set it so that it notifies you when things are going on. And for heaven's sake, do a first aid course. I know I say that in here about every six months, but it takes quite a while often for help to arrive, and that time feels much longer if you're sitting there looking at the person and you don't know what to do. Do a first aid course. They're not very expensive. We have run them for free in the past.

I'd like to see us do them again. But if you are— every person over the age of 13 or 14 needs to be fully conversant with how to perform CPR, how to provide basic first aid, and they need to have access to a first aid kit. And I think that's just, frankly, the very— that's as basic as knowing how to cook a meal and make your bed. Everybody needs to know this stuff. If you don't, go and learn it.

Thank you, Councillor Wheeler. And I do note there is a lot of research that's been done. We recently attended a release of research from Western Sydney University around community-led resilience. Back in 2017, I ran the Street Connect project that we did around community resilience. So all of those things combined, and just lots of clear, concise information about what people do in a crisis is always welcome, and we need to get that out as often and as clearly as we possibly can. So on that note, and given the time, thank you again all for attending, and we'll see you all next time. I'll close the meeting. Thank you.